(2011-10-24, 11:48 PM)Scoutie44 Wrote: [ -> ] (2011-10-24, 03:23 AM)Rukbat Wrote: [ -> ]Why can't you grasp 2 very simple facts?
1) The fact that someone makes a browser that doesn't interpret Javascript correctly has no more to do with Javascript than the fact that some company makes defective tires that fit GM cars has to do with GM.
No, but again, it affects the usability of the vehicle.
Which - again - has absolutely nothing to do with the vehicle manufacturer. You don't fix a defective tire problem by modifying the vehicle. You don't repair a defective browser by butchering your code to work less well in all browsers, just so it works a little better in the defective one.
Quote: You're saying that even though the package is incomplete, we should still be using it, even though it isn't really necessary in most cases. I don't agree with that [entirely].
No, you're saying that I'm saying that. I'm saying that if you insist on using a defective browser, that's your choice and your problem, but I'm not giving up client-side code because the browser you choose to use can't handle client-side code properly.
YOU'RE saying that, since some people make defective tires, cars should all be manufactured to run on their rims. Even if most people who know about cars choose to buy premium tires.
Quote:Quote:2) Javascript isn't going away. [Not one single] professional is going to stop using Javascript until something better comes along. (And then someone will produce a browser that doesn't interpret that language properly.) Whether you think that functionality is missing or not is totally irrelevant - the industry (those of us who earn our livings doing this stuff) are going to continue to use it, and most people who work on large projects that they don't get paid for (like MyBB) are also going to continue to use it.
Since you evidently know more than I do about this subject, do carry on.
I am simply not interested in seeing good projects, and web development as a whole, unnecessarily turn to methods which have obvious flaws.
Not using client-side code is a flaw. Using a defective browser is a flaw. Using Javascript isn't a flaw.
Again - if
you choose to use a browser that can't handle client-side code properly (and there's very little choice if the developer doesn't want to pay Microsoft), you either learn enough that you'll change browser, or you put up with a defective-looking site.
As a professional developer, I don't have the time to make sure that my site looks the same in every browser out there (and there are well over 100 of them), nor would I if I did have the time.
Quote:Aside from that, I don't want JS to go away [unless of course there's a better alternative in the future]. Never said I did (or did I? don't recall). Please see the italicized sentence above these ones to see what my reasoning is.
But you're assuming that the flaw is AJAX or Javascript. It's not. It's the inability of some browsers to handle a properly written website properly. (AJAX doesn't, in and of itself, do anything to the site. It's still just plain old PHP on the server and plain old Javascript in the client. And if it's not Javascrtipt it's going to be vbscript, and if you suggest that to the industry, I absolve myself of the results.)
Quote:Quote:All you're going to get - from this conversation and from the web development industry.
...
Those of us who know how and where to use it will use it as we see fit. Decades of experience trumps newbieness every single time.
Please, don't treat me like an idiot. I am entitled to my opinion just as much as you are; likewise, opinions are subject to change.
The difference is that my "opinion" is backed by almost 40 years of earning a living doing this, taking courses to stay current, and inventing some of what's been used. Yours is based on a lack of understanding of how websites work and how developers develop them.
Quote:When all popular browsers reduce their hiccups to a tiny percent, and the majority of the web is actually using these browsers (see: percentage of people still using outdated browsers), I'll be much more welcome to using JS on a large scale. Until then.. not so much.
Then don't use it in sites
you design. But resign yourself to the fact that most sites will continue to use Javascript regardless of what those who write browsers do, until something replaces Javascxript.
VERY few professional developers who use Javascript are going to switch to ASP. You're asking GM to stop making cars and start making horse-drawn wagons out of wood controlled by another company. It's not going to happen. The industry - if asked - would reject your "opinion" out of hand.
Will MyBB use AJAX? I'm not on the development team, so I have no idea. Should it? In my opinion, yes - where applicable.
Will it use Javascript? Up to 2.0, we know it will. The library's already been chosen, from what I've been reading here. (Again, I'm not on the team, so I know as much, or as little, about what's going to be done as you do - but I do know 2.0 will be using Javascript unless the entire industry takes a big turn.)