2012-04-15, 08:39 PM
(2012-04-15, 08:18 PM)Echo Off Wrote: [ -> ]Who cares is it is semantic or styleboobaa, As long as it bloody well works, who on earth cares?
People who care about good engineering.
2012-04-15, 08:39 PM
2012-04-15, 09:15 PM
I know, But is there any need to argue over it?
2012-04-15, 09:56 PM
(2012-04-15, 09:15 PM)Echo Off Wrote: [ -> ]I know, But is there any need to argue over it?
Blind people would think so. I, personally, think it's pretty important. For this type of thing, you should sweat the small stuff.
2012-04-16, 03:12 PM
I already do, But it is unecessary to argue. Simply say, please do away with those tags and do it properly, no bickering.
2012-04-17, 06:34 AM
You can't do away with all of them, in some places they are needed.
2012-04-17, 05:05 PM
Honestly, this thread is the funniest thing I've read all day.
Like some people have already said, <strong> and <em> add extra meaning to their contents. Most users will see this represented as either being bold or italic respectively. However, some users, particularly those with disabilities meaning they have to view the page in different ways (such as screen readers), will still get the same change in meaning, but presented in a different way. Because of this, <strong> and <em> have, and rightfully so, a very strong place in the HTML specification.
The difference between them and their stylistic counterparts (<b> and <i>) is that the latter are purely presentational. They have no effect to the meaning of the text and only to how their contents is shown to users.
If, like some people in this thread are suggesting, you were to replace <strong> and <em> with CSS styled spans, then you are effectively removing their purpose and may as well use <b> or <i> which do exactly the same.
<strong> and <em> are very important for accessibility in HTML documents. If MyBB is to remove them and replace them with spans, I for one shall be very disappointed. Now, don't get me wrong, <b> and <i> can be gotten rid of and replaced with spans. I have no problem with that as it makes it easier to provide additional styling to them.
It is important to care about small details as it is these things which make the difference between a good product and a great product. Take the quick reply as an example. It is a relatively small feature and without it, it would only be one click more to make a post. But it is still an important one because of the advantages it brings. Although it may seem as though that example is completely irrelevant, take a closer look and you'll see what I mean. Small details make a big difference and are very important.
I know that most of what I just said has already been mentioned several times but people still don't seem to be understanding it so I'm simply trying to reword it and perhaps make it clearer in order that they do.
Like some people have already said, <strong> and <em> add extra meaning to their contents. Most users will see this represented as either being bold or italic respectively. However, some users, particularly those with disabilities meaning they have to view the page in different ways (such as screen readers), will still get the same change in meaning, but presented in a different way. Because of this, <strong> and <em> have, and rightfully so, a very strong place in the HTML specification.
The difference between them and their stylistic counterparts (<b> and <i>) is that the latter are purely presentational. They have no effect to the meaning of the text and only to how their contents is shown to users.
If, like some people in this thread are suggesting, you were to replace <strong> and <em> with CSS styled spans, then you are effectively removing their purpose and may as well use <b> or <i> which do exactly the same.
<strong> and <em> are very important for accessibility in HTML documents. If MyBB is to remove them and replace them with spans, I for one shall be very disappointed. Now, don't get me wrong, <b> and <i> can be gotten rid of and replaced with spans. I have no problem with that as it makes it easier to provide additional styling to them.
It is important to care about small details as it is these things which make the difference between a good product and a great product. Take the quick reply as an example. It is a relatively small feature and without it, it would only be one click more to make a post. But it is still an important one because of the advantages it brings. Although it may seem as though that example is completely irrelevant, take a closer look and you'll see what I mean. Small details make a big difference and are very important.
I know that most of what I just said has already been mentioned several times but people still don't seem to be understanding it so I'm simply trying to reword it and perhaps make it clearer in order that they do.
2012-04-17, 09:15 PM
Wouldn't it be pretty easy to fix this in the CSS, e.g.
em {font-style:normal;}
strong {font-weight:normal;}
This way, everyone wins. Kinda feel bad for editing them out all this time now, though I doubt someone who is blind is going to be on my fashion forum ... still, this is a fast and simple solution to this problem, as far as I can tell.
em {font-style:normal;}
strong {font-weight:normal;}
This way, everyone wins. Kinda feel bad for editing them out all this time now, though I doubt someone who is blind is going to be on my fashion forum ... still, this is a fast and simple solution to this problem, as far as I can tell.
2012-04-17, 09:42 PM
(2012-04-17, 09:15 PM)Uncontrol Wrote: [ -> ]Wouldn't it be pretty easy to fix this in the CSS, e.g.
em {font-style:normal;}
strong {font-weight:normal;}
This way, everyone wins.
More like "normal people die" kind of scenario if you ask me. You taked away meaning from those tags for everybody but those with text readers.
2012-04-17, 10:20 PM
To sum this up perfectly: <strong> and <em> should be used, <b> and <i> should not.
/thread
/thread
2012-04-19, 01:13 AM
(2012-04-17, 09:42 PM)Rafio Wrote: [ -> ](2012-04-17, 09:15 PM)Uncontrol Wrote: [ -> ]Wouldn't it be pretty easy to fix this in the CSS, e.g.
em {font-style:normal;}
strong {font-weight:normal;}
This way, everyone wins.
More like "normal people die" kind of scenario if you ask me. You taked away meaning from those tags for everybody but those with text readers. You can specify it to only work in the thead or whereever you'd like, for example ...
What is this thread about then, if this isn't a helpful solution?
That's the point. If you don't want your theads, for example, being bolded but want screen readers to know to emphasize them, just style them into being invisible.