MyBB Community Forums

Hi all,

let me say first: I LOVE MyBB. It's plain fantastic in so many ways.

Some of you know that I have already gone to some lengths in research and finding help here in the forums to be able to make MyBB do what I need it to do for me. This is another case like that, and I would hugely appreciate any help.

playcentreforums.co.nz/forum is a collaboration platform for a real life community. It will eventually have hundreds of groups, each of which will need its own private category and forums that only that group can access. Each group also needs its own private calendar.

Unless I am overlooking something, the only way to set up such a new group and its forums, calendar and permissions is to MANUALLY (!!!) :

- create the category
- create the new group
- create all forums and sub forums of that group
- create the group's calendar
- set all permissions for that group
- set all permissions for all new forums
- set permissions for the group's calendar

As if that wasn't enough work, on top of that every new group that I create automatically gets assigned the right to access every single calendar that already exists in the forums, so I have to manually undo that for every single calendar again after setting up the new group!

In addition, I find that setting permissions takes way too many clicks and page loads, and the ACP is pretty clumsy in that regard.

I would like to see a matrix style system, like a spread sheet, where one can just tick the boxes of rights per group and / or forum that one wants to set, while scrolling around in that spread sheet, both horizontally and vertically if needed. The current presentation of permissions is not very helpful for anything but a pretty straight forward forum structure in my opinion.

All I want is to make a clone of a category, with all its forums, sub forums, forum names, forum descriptions, threads, thread titles, posts, attachments, calendars, calendar entries, permissions - everything! - and set it up under a new category name; and then create a new group, and assign all permissions to that group that the group in the original of this clone had for their forums and calendar.


I am aware that my forums probably are on the more complex side of all forums, but seriously: This is only copying some data! Yet doing this takes me several hours, and that's unacceptable if you have to do this hundreds of times!

So: Is there a way to do this faster? A LOT faster?

As I said, it may well be that I am overlooking something fundamental here, and if that's the case, feel free to laugh at me at my expense, and then please show me how to do it. But from where I stand, MyBB is seriously lacking power in handling complex forums, user groups, and permissions structures in an efficient way.

Please tell me that there is a good solution for this - because once again, I am at a point where I absolutely WANT to keep using MyBB for all that is great about it, but if I can't find a good solution for this, this will force me to sadly switch to a platform that can do this.

No! I don't want to do that! Help!

Matt

(2012-09-13, 11:40 AM)Mariku Wrote: [ -> ]In addition, I find that [b]setting permissions takes way too many clicks and page loads, and the ACP is pretty clumsy in that regard.

I would have to agree, the ACP permissions needs to be really improved, dramatically.

I'm not aware of any plugin that can do it any quicker, hopefully someone else could link.

are you going to have common areas in the forum as well, or limit access to peoples groups only?

there is no plugin to create what you are asking, but it sounds like you would need a standalone PHP file to simply generate the data you need directly in the DB.

please note that a lot of usergroups is a big performance hit in mybb. perhaps 1.8 will be better here, but 1.6 it is an issue.

Seems you lack the skills to handle MyBB's power

pavemen:

Yes there are also going to be common areas, not negotiable, it's a must.

Quote:you would need a standalone PHP file to simply generate the data you need directly in the DB

Sounds perfectly reasonble... but I don't have the skills to do that. I'm a somewhat savvy computer user and very capable and willing to learn - in fact, have done that heaps to get where the Playcentreforums are right now - but in this particular project, I simply don't have the time to learn a lot about PHP.

Having said that, and although I assume that it's not that simple, let me ask at least if you could point me to some resource where I could "quickly" learn how to generate the data in the DB directly. Haha, I can dream, right?

Thanks for the hint re "lots of user groups = performance hit" in MyBB. That is valuable to know, and sounds likely to become a real problem for this application.

Is there any other platform that you would recommend in any of these regards (cloning forums, permissions handling, performance)?



Ansem:

You are right, and you are wrong. Any forum software can be made to do nearly anything you want, if you are prepared to put in an unlimited amount of modifying.



@all:

Let me make this clear: I recognise that the MyBB team has limited resources and time available, of course, and I think they are doing an outstanding job!

Matter of fact is though, some platforms do some things better than MyBB.

Unfortunately, some of those things are not just "little" things as often perceived by many in the MyBB community, but things that actually limit MyBB from reaching large amounts of new user groups. Easy cloning of forums and content, easy handling and overview of permissions, and lack of performance with many user groups are things that can clearly be done a lot better, and that would open up huge amounts of uses to MyBB that currently are not possible.

Think about it: Who is "the MyBB community"? People who use MyBB. And who uses MyBB? People whose applications have requirements that MyBB can already meet today. So of course, if you ask the MyBB community about a new desired feature, the vast majority is likely to say "don't need that, don't waste our resources on that". But that lacks the vision of what OTHER user groups MyBB could reach if some functionality would be added - and it really isn't about little weirdo functionality, but pretty basic core stuff, in my opinion!


On the whole I have always had great experiences here in the forums, and got a lot of really helpful and committed help and feedback from most people - a big fat thank you to you all!

But there is some tendency to dismiss criticism as "user error", and label requested functionality or features as "unnecessary, pointless, no one uses them" - and that mindset is absolutely not helpful. That closes minds and prevents people from seeing serious opportunities, and prevents many users from using MyBB - those many users that you never know about because they never show up here in the forums in the first place! .

(As a side note: For example, the suggestion of a per post tagging system has been brought up by serveral people, and has been met with the same attitude: "No one needs that, no one uses tags". Guess why? Because the one or two current tagging plugins that exist are not very useful as they are.)

For me, what I need is a solution for my application. That's all I'm interested in, and there are many more like me. If MyBB can't provide that, and I can not find help in the community to make it happen myself with some quite serious effort on my part, then I will sadly have to look elsewhere.

If it was "just" a hobby, I would have the time to play around by try and error until I get things working, or wait for 1.8 or 2.0. But this is a lot more than a hobby, it is a serious application, and time is of the essence.

Interestingly, in my search for a platform that can do what I want I am now seriously eyeing IPB.

Upon contacting the makers of IPB, my request, for example, for a "per post tagging system with pre set tags" has been met with interest and positive communication about a potential implementation of such a feature.

I find it very telling that the platform that has a clear commercial approach is more open to consider benefits of new functionality and features than MyBB - and I think it is because the people there have learned to recognise value when they see it. Of course, they also actually GET monetary value for any functinality they add as well, no doubt. Doing things commercially has benefits as well, both for the user and the maker.

But all that is just me, of course.

I'll just watch this little race between MyBB and IPB in this regard, curiously observing whether MyBB will accept the challenge or not. I will engage in communication and collaboration with either platform community if there is any interest, will do my best to make it happen, and will go with whoever makes a functional solution possible for me earlier.

Once again: I absolutely love MyBB, and would much, much prefer to stick with it.

But if it can't do what I need it to do, it's simply not for my application, and writing my needed functionality off as "no one needs that" just means it is missing out on tons more of other similar applications. I think that would be sad, considering how very far MyBB has already come.

I'm still very keen to hear of anyone who can give me any hints or help how I could achieve the things described in my original post with MyBB..... and am very open to any constructive communication and collaboration.

Ciao,

Matt

What you want is really a special request. Unsure why you think it's a lack of power in MyBB when it's simply you requiring unique and special software. IMHO MyBB actually comes pretty close to your needs and with some modification would fit your requirements. The fact is you lack the personal knowledge but that's not a shortcoming of MyBB.

Quote:I find it very telling that the platform that has a clear commercial approach is more open to consider benefits of new functionality and features than MyBB

Yeah it tells me that IPB is commercial software and MyBB isn't. The obvious.

Quote:I'll just watch this little race between MyBB and IPB in this regard, curiously observing whether MyBB will accept the challenge or not.

Ugh...that's funny because there is no race between them and I doubt MyBB will care about a challenge to personal suit your specific needs.

Quote:Once again: I absolutely love MyBB, and would much, much prefer to stick with it.

So adapt your project to MyBB or find someone who can. Don't expect MyBB to spend it's time doing your personal bidding so you can complete your project.

Quote:But if it can't do what I need it to do, it's simply not for my application, and writing my needed functionality off as "no one needs that" just means it is missing out on tons more of other similar applications.

No one needs that but you. I've been here for 6 1/2 years and never seen your request.

Quote:I'm still very keen to hear of anyone who can give me any hints or help how I could achieve the things described in my original post with MyBB

Okay. Go to a freelancer coder hiring site where you can post your job and get bids to do the work. That's your solution. You might even find someone here willing to take on the project for the correct price.

Good luck.

No need to get defensive, labrocca. I'm not interested in a semantic fight with you. However, some of your statements I can't just ignore.

I guess if for example easy handling of permissions is called a special request... then I'm wrong in my assumption that that would be something that would be seen as useful for any forum.

Not rising up to challenges is not to my disadvantage; it's ultimately always to the disadvantage of the platform if it fails to dare the vision of engaging with large new user groups. Other platforms will most definitely add such functionality, if they don't have it already, and any platform that fails to rise to the challenge will become history - entirely independently from how successful it may be at the present time. Whether you believe it or not, MyBB is in competition with quite a few others, and complacency will always have consequences.

"Adapt your project to suit MyBB" is really a simple approach to shoot down any even constructive criticism, don't you think? You are basically saying "If MyBB doesn't work for you, your project is wrong". Great attitude.

I'm not expecting anyone to do anything. I am trying to find out what MyBB can do for me, how, and what it can't do for me. I thought this forum would be the right place to do that.

I am also - as I have done successfully with previous issues - very much willing to do all the work that I can to make it as easy as possible to help me help myself, including thorough testing and productive communication. If the community wants to join me with this, I will be giving back as much as I receive, and the result would be a much stronger position for MyBB in general.

It's a bit rich of you to accuse me of trying to exploit the MyBB community.

Quote:No one needs that but you. I've been here for 6 1/2 years and never seen your request.

That is a pretty limited view, and a perfect example of what I meant before. Did you read the bit in my OP about why no one here thinks this functionality is needed? Because those who need it don't come to this MyBB community here in the first place! Why would they if MyBB can't do what they need, and threads like this show pretty clearly that there is little openness to new suggestions, and sometimes an outright hostile attitude to any criticism? Does that make it interesting to them to join these forums, and approach the community with "I would like to use MyBB, but need this and that added functionality, is that possible, how, how can I help make it happen?" Of course not! That's exactly what I am doing here, and I'm a rare case because I love MyBB so much that I'm willing to put up with responses like yours for a while.

Quote:Okay. Go to a freelancer coder hiring site where you can post your job and get bids to do the work. That's your solution. You might even find someone here willing to take on the project for the correct price.

This might indeed be a good thought, and I'm already seriously considering that.

Although the obvious disadvantage would be that I have no guarantee for long term support for the mods / plugins, and with a serious project, that I can not really risk. The running cost of IPB is annoying, but if the alternative is lack of long term support and risk of major problems down the road, that decision is a no brainer.

Also, I will have to see what the correct price would be - because if for not much more, I can buy the first year of an IPB license, and assuming that IPB is willing to implement what I need for me, then with the added functionality that IPB has in general which would also be very useful for my community I'm sort of leaning towards IPB nonetheless. (From the second year on, the project either makes good money anyway so the license of IPB won't be an issue, or it won't get off the ground anyway and at least I know that then.)

Any other ideas still very welcome!

Have a happy day!

:-)

Matt

Quote:However, some of your statements I can't just ignore.

I couldn't ignore you either. And since I'm not on the dev team I get to speak my mind. Dev team imho is too polite to tell you that your request as a challenge is practically offensive.

Quote:I guess if for example easy handling of permissions is called a special request...

Permission handling seems easy to me. More controls would be nice but overall I think it's a fairly robust perm system.

Quote: it's ultimately always to the disadvantage of the platform if it fails to dare the vision of engaging with large new user groups.

One user is not a "large new user groups"...it's just you as far as I can tell. If you had some massive existing community I have a feeling the dev team would consider your request more seriously. And wasting valuable development time on ONE persons request is a disadvantage. It's why I know what you're asking for just won't happen. MyBB dev team has other important matters to deal with. I don't think they even have the time to respond to your lengthy post.

Quote:"Adapt your project to suit MyBB" is really a simple approach to shoot down any even constructive criticism, don't you think? You are basically saying "If MyBB doesn't work for you, your project is wrong". Great attitude.

No. I'm saying if MyBB isn't right for you then find a way to modify it or find another project. If I can't afford a Ferarri I don't go around to dealers begging them to reduce the price. I go find a car I can afford.

Quote:I'm not expecting anyone to do anything. I am trying to find out what MyBB can do for me, how, and what it can't do for me. I thought this forum would be the right place to do that.

It can't do what you're asking unless you modify it. It can however do what you want without massive code changes. It might even be possible without any core edits. That should impress you but I have a feeling it won't.

Quote:It's a bit rich of you to accuse me of trying to exploit the MyBB community.

I don't see where I say that.

Quote:That is a pretty limited view, and a perfect example of what I meant before.

How is 6 1/2 years of personal MyBB experience as a "limited view"? I'm also the admin and coder of the largest MyBB site online. I'm also the owner and coder of a MyBB plugin site MyBBCentral.com. If I'm a "limited view" then exactly what rank is your view?

Quote:Why would they if MyBB can't do what they need, and threads like this show pretty clearly that there is little openness to new suggestions, and sometimes an outright hostile attitude to any criticism?

MyBB is pretty open to reasonable suggestion that it can commit that positively effect the overall community. Your request is neither reasonable or positively effects the overall community. Matter of fact imho because of dev time you require it's a negative.

Be aware I'm not on any official MyBB team and I don't speak for them. My view only reflects just that...my view.

Quote:This might indeed be a good thought, and I'm already seriously considering that.

If it's a solution and it is..then you should just do it. Figure out a reasonable budget and start writing up the post for your requirements. Not only will you get what you want but you'll have custom site which imho is more valuable than having MyBB build it in. It's custom sections of forums that make them stand out.

If I was you I wouldn't even want other sites to have my options.

As for IPB I think they are giving you lip service. As a commercial project they're not gonna tell you to buzz off. They get paid to appear to offer you support. I'd love to see how long you'd wait before you realize they won't build in the options you're asking for without payment for custom coding. They're gonna just point you here: http://community.invisionpower.com/resou...ogramming/

I wanna address some of your intial post.

Quote:All I want is to make a clone of a category, with all its forums, sub forums, forum names, forum descriptions, threads, thread titles, posts, attachments, calendars, calendar entries, permissions - everything! - and set it up under a new category name; and then create a new group, and assign all permissions to that group that the group in the original of this clone had for their forums and calendar.

That's where custom coding comes in and admin knowledge. Again MyBB doesn't lack power...you lack knowledge.

Quote:As I said, it may well be that I am overlooking something fundamental here, and if that's the case, feel free to laugh at me at my expense, and then please show me how to do it.

I been chuckling a bit. But I am offering you the solution. Hire someone with the knowledge to implement the code to suit your needs. If possible request that it's coded as a pure plugin with minimal core code edits. That should allow you to upgrade your forums easier and fix any potential problems in the script.

Quote:Please tell me that there is a good solution for this...

Hire someone. It's a good solution. If it's not then you're not serious about your project. If you can't afford the custom coding that's not a fault of MyBB. I'll go after your thread title now...

Quote:MyBB lacking power to handle complex forums?

No it's not. Simple.

you need to realize that supporting 100's of custom usergroups and permissions is not impossible, but it will likely be a performance hit. plain and simple fact is that the current MyBB system works great and is easy to use and runs fast for a what can be a reasonably large set of groups/permissions. Your needs just happen to exceed the standard that MyBB uses.

Sure, they could support your requirements, but at what cost? worse performance for 99.99% of the sites that use MyBB just to support your site? that is not reasonable.

I have about 50 groups. I know each one I add sucks up more resources. I'm intentionally always trying to minimize the resource usage of groups and part of that is permissions. I've actually had dev team make adjustments to core code that was not optimal but it helped the whole base not just my site.

Non-coders don't realize that loading a massive permission and groups table is going to cause resource problems.