MyBB Community Forums

Hi,
I've been using MyBB for a long time, and enjoy it. However, after suggesting it to some friends, who are less experienced with stuff, I noticed that it'd be nice if a few issues could be fixed.

Templates and Mods
Let's take this scenario. Someone installs a mod (which modifies templates) to their board - works fine and well. Then, they install a new theme, and... the mod doesn't work on the new theme...
My suggestion would be to give the option to import themes without creating a templateset. Currently, if you choose not to import custom templates, a new templateset is created anyway. May be fine for a small number of themes, but boards with a large set of themes quickly get messy with many templatesets, and mods modifying all these templatesets.
Another suggestion would be to change the find_replace_templatesets function to use the Global Templateset, and then edit modified templates if they have been previously edited.
Finally, perhaps make the Global Templateset show all templates like normal templatesets do - would make modifications kinda easier...

AdminCP Menu
Personally, I love the large menu - it saves a lot of clicking. But to new admins, it does appear daunting. Most other boards will seem more appealing due to the fact that the menu is a lot more compact and easier to understand initially. Perhaps have two versions of the menu - an "expanded" one and a "compact" one.
For example, the Forums section can be reduced to one link.

UserCP Menu
Again, similar to the AdminCP menu. Somewhat daunting to some new users. MyBB has 25 entries in the list. Compared to boards like PunBB, which only have about 5...
Although MyBB does indeed have a lot more features, many of the rather unused features can really be compacted. For example, I'm sure putting the Export Messages item as a link somewhere in Inbox won't hurt - I don't think people generally export their messages very often.


I hope these ideas can be of use

Hey ZiNga BuRgA,

Thanks for the suggestions although I have to point out a few things:

ZiNga BuRgA Wrote:Templates and Mods
Let's take this scenario. Someone installs a mod (which modifies templates) to their board - works fine and well. Then, they install a new theme, and... the mod doesn't work on the new theme...
My suggestion would be to give the option to import themes without creating a templateset. Currently, if you choose not to import custom templates, a new templateset is created anyway. May be fine for a small number of themes, but boards with a large set of themes quickly get messy with many templatesets, and mods modifying all these templatesets.

Importing without creating a new templateset would not solve the problem as the new templates would just overwrite the old ones and the mods would still not work. Since the changes made in templates by mods are usually not that extreme, it is quite easy to fix. The "Find Differences" tool compares the original template with the current one and highlights any changes.

ZiNga BuRgA Wrote:Another suggestion would be to change the find_replace_templatesets function to use the Global Templateset, and then edit modified templates if they have been previously edited.
Finally, perhaps make the Global Templateset show all templates like normal templatesets do - would make modifications kinda easier...

That is not the point of the Global templateset. The point of it is to make using mods much simpler and easier. If the mod needs to do a lot of template changes (Shoutbox for example) then instead of doing those changes to the main templatesets, the mod creates a new Global template and then implements that in one of the main templates using php. The global templateset should not show any of the default templates becuase they would not be linked to any theme and would therefore be useless.

ZiNga BuRgA Wrote:AdminCP Menu
Personally, I love the large menu - it saves a lot of clicking. But to new admins, it does appear daunting. Most other boards will seem more appealing due to the fact that the menu is a lot more compact and easier to understand initially. Perhaps have two versions of the menu - an "expanded" one and a "compact" one.
For example, the Forums section can be reduced to one link.

There will be a brand new Admin CP in MyBB 1.4 which is much easier to use.

ZiNga BuRgA Wrote:UserCP Menu
Again, similar to the AdminCP menu. Somewhat daunting to some new users. MyBB has 25 entries in the list. Compared to boards like PunBB, which only have about 5...
Although MyBB does indeed have a lot more features, many of the rather unused features can really be compacted. For example, I'm sure putting the Export Messages item as a link somewhere in Inbox won't hurt - I don't think people generally export their messages very often.

I agree with you on this one. I certainly think that a load of those links could be combined or moved to other places, however I am sure that if we did that we would have people start complaining that they cannot find x or that they have to click 3 times to do x.

Please feel free to add your User CP idea to the Ideas site.

Hi DrPoodle,

Thanks for the response.

DrPoodle Wrote:Importing without creating a new templateset would not solve the problem as the new templates would just overwrite the old ones and the mods would still not work. Since the changes made in templates by mods are usually not that extreme, it is quite easy to fix. The "Find Differences" tool compares the original template with the current one and highlights any changes.

Sorry, the idea was that the new theme doesn't import _any_ templates. There's already an option when importing a theme to not import custom templates, however, if selected Yes, it will still create a templateset although the new theme doesn't actually need it.
Some themes will break under this, but most themes will work fine IMO. It's a bit of a compromise I guess, but it is an issue facing MyBB at the moment IMHO, having seen a few of my friends try to run the boards.
The Find Differences tool may be great, but somewhat forces newbies to look into code and stuff. Not all forum admins know HTML (though they should if you ask me ).

DrPoodle Wrote:That is not the point of the Global templateset. The point of it is to make using mods much simpler and easier. If the mod needs to do a lot of template changes (Shoutbox for example) then instead of doing those changes to the main templatesets, the mod creates a new Global template and then implements that in one of the main templates using php. The global templateset should not show any of the default templates becuase they would not be linked to any theme and would therefore be useless.

Yeah, I know the Global templateset is used for custom templates, but it's actually great to use the Global templateset for mods and code changes which should appear across all themes IMO. For example, if you want to add a link in the Search/Member List/Calendar/Help navigation bar, it's a lot easier to edit the Global template rather than manually go through each templateset and merge changes. I know that the search & replace feature may be handy, but:
1) If a theme modifies the template in certain ways, the search & replace may not be successful. Yes, if the theme has a custom header template, the Global templateset solution won't work, but if the admin decides not to even import custom templates, then this won't be an issue (though it may make the theme look horrible).
2) Requires the admin doing the search & replace to be aware that they enter enough data so they don't accidentally override other templates

As for hiding/showing templates in the Global templateset, I guess I understand why they were hidden.

Although you may be thinking that people can easily set the templateset of a theme to MyBB Default, so everything's together, the tradeoff using this method is that if you have a number of templatesets, and wish to make global changes among them.

An idea would be to have perhaps a Global and Custom templatesets. I don't think most beginners would really delve much into templates, so it shouldn't be that much of an issue in terms of confusion.

DrPoodle Wrote:There will be a brand new Admin CP in MyBB 1.4 which is much easier to use.

Sounds great!

DrPoodle Wrote:I agree with you on this one. I certainly think that a load of those links could be combined or moved to other places, however I am sure that if we did that we would have people start complaining that they cannot find x or that they have to click 3 times to do x.

In fact, I totally agree, just like the AdminCP - it's so much easier to have everything there, and access it via one click, IMO.
But some people won't bother to read all that, so just put it aside as being bloated (I've known a number of cases where people have chosen other forums, such as phpBB, just because "MyBB looks bloated/confusing"; true, MyBB is more powerful than most boards, but a common trend in others is that links are more "combined"). A possible thing to do is to allow users to choose their style of menu, but then, that's really too much if you ask me.
I'm not sure if I can really come up with a decent answer with this - I guess I just want to make this issue aware - perhaps you smart guys can think up something

ZiNga BuRgA Wrote:Yeah, I know the Global templateset is used for custom templates, but it's actually great to use the Global templateset for mods and code changes which should appear across all themes IMO. For example, if you want to add a link in the Search/Member List/Calendar/Help navigation bar, it's a lot easier to edit the Global template rather than manually go through each templateset and merge changes. I know that the search & replace feature may be handy, but:
1) If a theme modifies the template in certain ways, the search & replace may not be successful. Yes, if the theme has a custom header template, the Global templateset solution won't work, but if the admin decides not to even import custom templates, then this won't be an issue (though it may make the theme look horrible).
2) Requires the admin doing the search & replace to be aware that they enter enough data so they don't accidentally override other templates

As for hiding/showing templates in the Global templateset, I guess I understand why they were hidden.

Although you may be thinking that people can easily set the templateset of a theme to MyBB Default, so everything's together, the tradeoff using this method is that if you have a number of templatesets, and wish to make global changes among them.

An idea would be to have perhaps a Global and Custom templatesets. I don't think most beginners would really delve much into templates, so it shouldn't be that much of an issue in terms of confusion.

I don't think you understand the purpose of Global templates.

Global templates are extra templates that can be used by any theme. They are not substitutes for the actual theme templates.

You also assume that most forums have more than one theme attached to them, when in reality only a few forums do this. Most forums have a single theme which can be easily updated. If a forum wants more than one theme to be available to its users then they should know the consequences of having to update each theme individually.

-DrPoodle

DrPoodle Wrote:You also assume that most forums have more than one theme attached to them, when in reality only a few forums do this. Most forums have a single theme which can be easily updated. If a forum wants more than one theme to be available to its users then they should know the consequences of having to update each theme individually.

Almost all forums I've visited have a variety of themes available. I guess the forums I tend to visit have different target audiences than the ones you probably tend to visit.
Regardless of whether a forum is likely to have multiple themes, the functionality exists in MyBB, so it would be great if such a feature wouldn't cause some issues with plugins.

Forums with multiple themes and plugins are generally run by:
1) Serious modders, who like to modify basically anything they can
2) Newbs who are more interested in looks than functionality.

I personally think that asking newbs to be aware that themes have such a link between templates is a bit too much of a request. As I mentioned, this is primarily designed for newbies, who just basically want to do some basic setting up, install a few themes and plugins to suit their needs, then forget about configuration (almost ). Having to play around with templatesets, merging changes between templates etc does seem a little over the top IMO.

I understand that you believe that the global templateset isn't designed to replace normal templates, but it's currently the only way to easily perform a global change in templates. On my own board, I have a number of templatesets, and editing a global template is far easier than editing the template for each templateset. Generally, when I install a plugin which modifies templates, I usually go through each templateset and select Revert to Original.

Of course, if you believe that people should understand that installing themes may cause conflicts with plugins, that's really up to you. MyBB is already a great software, and I support whatever is done to it I personally found this an issue, however, having experience with newbies on the issue, and really think that MyBB could easily appeal more to newcommers if it could be a little more friendly.

Thanks for your time DrPoodle!

The application of the template modifications needs to be done on the plugin side as there is absolutely no way we can currently do it on our side after a new template set is created.

Tikitiki Wrote:The application of the template modifications needs to be done on the plugin side as there is absolutely no way we can currently do it on our side after a new template set is created.

I realize this problem and on my MYPS plugin I plan to add a "rebuild templates" tool for it. In case you add more themes or templates the tool will remove all template changes and then reinstall them. That SHOULD work.

What mybb could do that wouldmake this easier for plugin authors is to create some functions to expedite this procedure. Not sure what exactly but ...well something.

It's really not that big a deal though if you are a good mod author. One important thing is that when I am adding/changing to a template...I do it on the fly with a function with preg_replace. That way any future changes (new templates added) should not effect the plugin. The global templates don't matter because as DrPoodle points out..they are universal.


EDIT: Oohh..just thought of it.

What would be nice is if there was a "rebuild templates" under the plugins section next to the "Activate/Deactivate" button. Mod authors could copy their template changes to a new function in the plugin pluginname_rebuild_template() and that should basically do it. It COULD work and it's fairly simple. Mod authors could easily add this function to their templates. The function could be a sort of search/replace where we can add the template name and file changes and the function could check to see if it exists first..and if not..then to rebuild it. Just an idea.

labrocca Wrote:EDIT: Oohh..just thought of it.

What would be nice is if there was a "rebuild templates" under the plugins section next to the "Activate/Deactivate" button. Mod authors could copy their template changes to a new function in the plugin pluginname_rebuild_template() and that should basically do it. It COULD work and it's fairly simple. Mod authors could easily add this function to their templates. The function could be a sort of search/replace where we can add the template name and file changes and the function could check to see if it exists first..and if not..then to rebuild it. Just an idea.

That would be a great feature. What if it had a "theme selection" drop down next to it so the Admin could select to either do it to all themes or just to one? That way it would save time if the Admin had only imported a new theme and just wanted to update that one.

labrocca Wrote:EDIT: Oohh..just thought of it.

What would be nice is if there was a "rebuild templates" under the plugins section next to the "Activate/Deactivate" button. Mod authors could copy their template changes to a new function in the plugin pluginname_rebuild_template() and that should basically do it. It COULD work and it's fairly simple. Mod authors could easily add this function to their templates. The function could be a sort of search/replace where we can add the template name and file changes and the function could check to see if it exists first..and if not..then to rebuild it. Just an idea.

I love it that would be a very good one to have i think you should post this at http://ideas.mybboard.net/ so it dsoe not get lost in all the chat.

Tikitiki Wrote:The application of the template modifications needs to be done on the plugin side as there is absolutely no way we can currently do it on our side after a new template set is created.

Yeah, but my suggestion is to modify the find_replace_templatesets() function.


A neater alternative to this could be to allow plugins to hook into templates - that is, whenever a template is eval'd, hooks can be run. I'm not sure what impact this has on speed however.