(2017-12-15, 07:49 PM)Ashley1 Wrote: [ -> ]The user friendliness of the editor is at least one other issue that needs to be addressed, and is always being raised on the forum. Why CKeditor is not being punted as being incorporated into MyBB is beyond me.
I believe a
Markdown editor has been suggested as an alternative for 1.10, which would be way better than any of the existing BBCode editors IMO.
Markdown is great, but I have over a hundred thousand posts full of BB Code...
Quote:The user friendliness of the editor is at least one other issue that needs to be addressed, and is always being raised on the forum.
I don't view that as difficult to implement though.
Quote:Markdown is great, but I have over a hundred thousand posts full of BB Code...
And then there is that issue. I'm sure MyBB could come up some conversion tool and it can be fixed.
(2017-12-15, 09:40 PM)labrocca Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:The user friendliness of the editor is at least one other issue that needs to be addressed, and is always being raised on the forum.
I don't view that as difficult to implement though.
Quote:Markdown is great, but I have over a hundred thousand posts full of BB Code...
And then there is that issue. I'm sure MyBB could come up some conversion tool and it can be fixed.
In the end the best solution would probably be an editor and parser that combines both BBCode and markdown. Otherwise you might lose useful features such as custom BBCodes (people use these for spoiler, various embeds otherwise not available in the core, and much more). Unfortunately, I'm yet to find a satisfactory third party editor that meets conditions:
- Responsive and fast on mobile - many JS based editors lag on mobile to a painful degree. When the most important thing on a forum is writing posts, you need an editor experience that doesn't mandate waiting seconds between key presses to write a paragraph.
- Permissively licensed (free, open source, compatible with MyBB's licensing terms).
- Easy to customise with custom buttons and styles.
- Able to handle both a WYSIWYG mode and a source mode that shows BBCode/MyCode source - some simply give the choice of WYSIWYG or the HTML source. The mode (source/WYSIWYG) needs to be able to be laoded as a user preference and chosen by default. Source mode should still show an editor toolbar (XenForo (at least in v1) would lose the toolbar and any sueful tools as soon as you went into source mod, which is completely useless).
- Support for both BBCode and Markdown. Being able to easily add custom MyCode to the editor would also be nice.
This isn't the first time I've talked about editors and asked for suggestions either. There's been an open issue for a couple of months now with not a great deal of feedback or evaluation of the different choices available:
https://github.com/mybb/mybb2/issues/304
Regarding a mobile theme:
We've discussed this quite a lot, and is definitely something that needs to be worked on. Whilst we were discussing the possibility of working on 1.10, we floated the idea of simply releasing a new theme that could be bundled with the core that would be fully responsive. It was discussed by quite a few people, and there were people (such as Eric) willing to work on it, but in the end it was decided that we should aim a little bit higher and try to integrate some other useful features and user experience enhancements such as adding alerts and conversations to the core.
Obviously, this extra work will take extra time (work and time taken go hand in hand on a linear scale - more work = more time). Just how long it will take depends on how many people contribute and work on it and how much time they put in. So far, 2 people have been working on 1.10. Clearly with 2 people it's going to take a little while, especially when both of us have full time 9-5 jobs to work to put food on the table. With more people contributing, the time it takes to release 1.10 while decrease.
(2017-12-16, 11:14 PM)Euan T Wrote: [ -> ]In the end the best solution would probably be an editor and parser that combines both BBCode and markdown. Otherwise you might lose useful features such as custom BBCodes (people use these for spoiler, various embeds otherwise not available in the core, and much more). Unfortunately, I'm yet to find a satisfactory third party editor that meets conditions:
- Responsive and fast on mobile - many JS based editors lag on mobile to a painful degree. When the most important thing on a forum is writing posts, you need an editor experience that doesn't mandate waiting seconds between key presses to write a paragraph.
- Permissively licensed (free, open source, compatible with MyBB's licensing terms).
- Easy to customise with custom buttons and styles.
- Able to handle both a WYSIWYG mode and a source mode that shows BBCode/MyCode source - some simply give the choice of WYSIWYG or the HTML source. The mode (source/WYSIWYG) needs to be able to be laoded as a user preference and chosen by default. Source mode should still show an editor toolbar (XenForo (at least in v1) would lose the toolbar and any sueful tools as soon as you went into source mod, which is completely useless).
- Support for both BBCode and Markdown. Being able to easily add custom MyCode to the editor would also be nice.
This isn't the first time I've talked about editors and asked for suggestions either. There's been an open issue for a couple of months now with not a great deal of feedback or evaluation of the different choices available: https://github.com/mybb/mybb2/issues/304
So how do you conclude that the best solution is a combination of BBcode and markdown ? Remove the word markdown from your post and you just described CKeditor. Members don't go to github to post feedback, they do that here on the forum. Atofighi's CKeditor plugin is one of the most downloaded plugins for MyBB with over 10K downloads, that alone should give you an indication of what the community wants.
(2017-12-16, 11:59 PM)Ashley1 Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-12-16, 11:14 PM)Euan T Wrote: [ -> ]In the end the best solution would probably be an editor and parser that combines both BBCode and markdown. Otherwise you might lose useful features such as custom BBCodes (people use these for spoiler, various embeds otherwise not available in the core, and much more). Unfortunately, I'm yet to find a satisfactory third party editor that meets conditions:
- Responsive and fast on mobile - many JS based editors lag on mobile to a painful degree. When the most important thing on a forum is writing posts, you need an editor experience that doesn't mandate waiting seconds between key presses to write a paragraph.
- Permissively licensed (free, open source, compatible with MyBB's licensing terms).
- Easy to customise with custom buttons and styles.
- Able to handle both a WYSIWYG mode and a source mode that shows BBCode/MyCode source - some simply give the choice of WYSIWYG or the HTML source. The mode (source/WYSIWYG) needs to be able to be laoded as a user preference and chosen by default. Source mode should still show an editor toolbar (XenForo (at least in v1) would lose the toolbar and any sueful tools as soon as you went into source mod, which is completely useless).
- Support for both BBCode and Markdown. Being able to easily add custom MyCode to the editor would also be nice.
This isn't the first time I've talked about editors and asked for suggestions either. There's been an open issue for a couple of months now with not a great deal of feedback or evaluation of the different choices available: https://github.com/mybb/mybb2/issues/304
So how do you conclude that the best solution is a combination of BBcode and markdown ? Remove the word markdown from your post and you just described CKeditor. Members don't go to github to post feedback, they do that here on the forum. Atofighi's CKeditor plugin is one of the most downloaded plugins for MyBB with over 10K downloads, that alone should give you an indication of what the community wants.
I don't know if that's necessarily true or if it's the simple fact that they can easily replace sceditor with a plugin built specifically for mybb.
(2017-12-16, 11:59 PM)Ashley1 Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-12-16, 11:14 PM)Euan T Wrote: [ -> ]In the end the best solution would probably be an editor and parser that combines both BBCode and markdown. Otherwise you might lose useful features such as custom BBCodes (people use these for spoiler, various embeds otherwise not available in the core, and much more). Unfortunately, I'm yet to find a satisfactory third party editor that meets conditions:
- Responsive and fast on mobile - many JS based editors lag on mobile to a painful degree. When the most important thing on a forum is writing posts, you need an editor experience that doesn't mandate waiting seconds between key presses to write a paragraph.
- Permissively licensed (free, open source, compatible with MyBB's licensing terms).
- Easy to customise with custom buttons and styles.
- Able to handle both a WYSIWYG mode and a source mode that shows BBCode/MyCode source - some simply give the choice of WYSIWYG or the HTML source. The mode (source/WYSIWYG) needs to be able to be laoded as a user preference and chosen by default. Source mode should still show an editor toolbar (XenForo (at least in v1) would lose the toolbar and any sueful tools as soon as you went into source mod, which is completely useless).
- Support for both BBCode and Markdown. Being able to easily add custom MyCode to the editor would also be nice.
This isn't the first time I've talked about editors and asked for suggestions either. There's been an open issue for a couple of months now with not a great deal of feedback or evaluation of the different choices available: https://github.com/mybb/mybb2/issues/304
So how do you conclude that the best solution is a combination of BBcode and markdown ? Remove the word markdown from your post and you just described CKeditor. Members don't go to github to post feedback, they do that here on the forum. Atofighi's CKeditor plugin is one of the most downloaded plugins for MyBB with over 10K downloads, that alone should give you an indication of what the community wants.
Many people have asked for Markdown support. To me, there are a couple of possible ways to fullfill that request:
- Let admins choose whether their board uses either Markdown or BBCode globally for all posts. This would cause old posts to break, unless they are converted from BBCode to markdown somehow. Also note that amrkdown only supprots a subset of the tags that BBCode supports, and you instead have to use HTML to do things like embed videos. That would require HTML to be allowed in posts, and filtered by something like HTML purifier. Any custom BBCodes would need to be converted to pure HTML and that HTML would have to be inserted by suers when writing a post. I think we can agree that's a number of downsides.
- Implement a parser and editor that supports both markdown and BBCode. This brings the best of both worlds - users can choose to exclusively use markdown when writing a post if they want, or can exclusively use BBCode if they don't like markdown. Old posts do not need to be converted to markdown and everything works the same way as it did before with no changes required by suers or administrators. Custom BBCode and everything continue to work as they did originally.
Obviously breaking old posts and requiring the conversion of old posts are not great solutions from anybody's point of view.
I know that members use the forums for feedback, so let's now search for the term "editor" and see just how many different threads there have been with different suggestions over the years:
All of the above threads are from 2017 alone. There are many others going back many more years. None of those threads end in a conclusion of which editor people would prefer. People seem to have
very strong thoughts and opinions on which editors they prefer, and catering to everybody's tastes and needs is incredibly difficult.
The point that Andrew made regarding the CKEditor is also a good one. How many people use the CK Editor plugin simply because it's well known and available. There aren't many other plugins providing support for other editors, so who knows if the plugin is popular because CK Editor is popular, or simply because it's the only viable alternative choice to SCEditor which everybody knows has an abundance of issues?
I hope you don't think I'm trying to minimise the issue here. We know that the choice of the editor used in MyBB is an important choice, and that's why we want to make sure that we make the right one. We need to try and support as many different user use cases as we possibly can and look at the pros and cons of all of the options that are available to us.
That's just ridiculous. The only argument you're advancing is that you're very stubborn and not in touch with community suggestion at all.
(2017-12-17, 12:13 PM)Ashley1 Wrote: [ -> ]That's just ridiculous. The only argument you're advancing is that you're very stubborn and not in touch with community suggestion at all.
Sorry, I really do not understand what you are actually trying to suggest or advise. I tried to write a cohesive post explaining my viewpoints and thoughts, and your response is extremely dismissive and adds absolutely nothing of value to the discussion.
(2017-12-17, 01:47 PM)Euan T Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-12-17, 12:13 PM)Ashley1 Wrote: [ -> ]That's just ridiculous. The only argument you're advancing is that you're very stubborn and not in touch with community suggestion at all.
Sorry, I really do not understand what you are actually trying to suggest or advise. I tried to write a cohesive post explaining my viewpoints and thoughts, and your response is extremely dismissive and adds absolutely nothing of value to the discussion.
The threads you point to don't show overwhelming support for something that you plan to implement. One or two persons suggest the markdown editor while the majority of community responses are to reject the idea, in the threads that you point out. So what's the basis for your inferences ?