MyBB Community Forums

Quote:No, we did not take a shortcut. This is not apples and oranges. This is resources, time, and planning.

You're being defensive for no reason. Most shortcuts are taken for those same reasons..resources, time, and planning.

http://www.answers.com/shortcut

Quote:A means of saving time or effort.

Are you saying that at no time it was discussed adding the titles or keywords to urls? I find that hard to believe. A decision at some point was made to not go through the extra work it would have required to do SEO in the most desirable way. SEO was implemented without any real care. Who needs forums-2424.html. It's realistically no different than forumdisplay.php?tid=2424. Search engines see it exactly the same. However SE's have been known to index keyword URLs better. This is why many people start threads like this. This is why the SEO Google plugin is 70 pages long.

Quote:You can reply "MyBB is by far the best for SEO because it has the Google SEO plugin" today.

Sorry Frost but I don't think that's true. With all the core file edits required and no fixes on the templates issue I wouldn't say that it's the best. It might be the best available MyBB option but that's about it. There are things your plugin doesn't address such as repeated inbound URLs and nofollow tags.

(2009-08-19, 07:11 PM)labrocca Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry Frost but I don't think that's true.

No sentence that starts with "MyBB is by far the best..." is true, simply because there is no "best" for anything. What I meant is that you can tell people about Google SEO anyway. It fits the SEO requirement just nicely, and it'll still be improved, no worries.

PM me about the things you want to see fixed, the things you mentioned don't really ring a bell, except for nofollow ( http://community.mybboard.net/thread-525...#pid374263 http://community.mybboard.net/thread-544...#pid386704 ).

In my Google SEO thread, I always list known bugs and features planned in the first post. If there's anything missing from there, please tell me about it. I'll probably add a list of suggestions there too so I can also keep track of things that were suggested to me, but I'm not convinced of (yet).

(2009-08-19, 07:11 PM)labrocca Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:No, we did not take a shortcut. This is not apples and oranges. This is resources, time, and planning.

You're being defensive for no reason.

(2009-08-19, 09:35 AM)labrocca Wrote: [ -> ]so you did a half-lime job

Ask me why I shouldn't be defensive.

(2009-08-19, 07:11 PM)labrocca Wrote: [ -> ]Most shortcuts are taken for those same reasons..resources, time, and planning.

And if we had more resources, time, planning, and phD.'s in SEO theory and studies then I'm sure it could have been better, just like with the other thousands of features people request here.

(2009-08-19, 07:11 PM)labrocca Wrote: [ -> ]Are you saying that at no time it was discussed adding the titles or keywords to urls? I find that hard to believe. A decision at some point was made to not go through the extra work it would have required to do SEO in the most desirable way.

It was always the plan to put in those types of URLs in 1.4, then have them revamped in 2.0. You make it sound like we make these decisions without a care in the world. The only reason we have not done more for any feature ever put into MyBB, is because we can't have 4 or 5 year long periods of development between releases, so we have to place the stop sign somewhere.

(2009-08-19, 07:11 PM)labrocca Wrote: [ -> ]It's realistically no different than forumdisplay.php?tid=2424. Search engines see it exactly the same.

Can you provide me with proof that this is true from two years ago? Maybe you haven't noticed but search engines have improved within the last two years.

Quote:Can you provide me with proof that this is true from two years ago? Maybe you haven't noticed but search engines have improved within the last two years.

I been doing this a long time. Search engines have been fine with dynamic urls for about 4-5 years now.

Quote:Ask me why I shouldn't be defensive.

So you have one area that imho you haven't done the best job. But there are others where MyBB staff has greatly excelled. Do you really expect us to ignore things we don't like about MyBB because it might hurt your ego? Don't take it too personally. No one is trying to say you suck.

Quote:It was always the plan to put in those types of URLs in 1.4, then have them revamped in 2.0.

That's half-lime. That's practically the definition right there. You even knew that the 1.4x SEO wasn't the optimal result but you went ahead and did it anyways. You can defend the position of what decisions were made but end result is that people may need to redo their URLs a third time when 2.0 comes out. This is why I stuck with standard dynamic urls for most of my existing MyBB sites. I knew too that the 1.4x implementation would have to be changed.

Quote:And if we had more resources, time, planning, and phD.'s in SEO theory and studies then I'm sure it could have been better, just like with the other thousands of features people request here.

I mentioned once starting an actual SEO Team for MyBB development. I would join that team and even lead it if it was created. It's my opinion that SEO should be placed very high on the priority list for MyBB. It's one of the most attractive and requested features of any forum software.

There's no point arguing about thread-123.html because it's done and no one can go 2 years back in time. Also no one can just integrate a solution into MyBB like how it's done over at WordPress, you'd have to know what you're doing, you'd have to add a thousand lines of code and change a thousand lines more for that, and that's just an optimistic guess. In other words, it won't happen, not anytime soon anyway.

The only remotely realistic alternative I see would be bundling Google SEO and MyBB, like how akismet is bundled with it. Our licenses are compatible, if you stick with GPL anyway. It would be the solution that requires the least amount of effort (couple of code changes to MyBB so the plugin can run without code modifications and without hacks). It could be done for 1.6, if both sides are willing.

I was under the impression that the URLs were meant to just be more friendly for bots, hence the name Search Engine Friendly URLs, as opposed to being for proper optimisation... thread-123-post-123.html is easier to manage and use than forumdisplay.php?tid=123&pid=123... or am I just misunderstanding their main intended purpose?? Was it intended for proper optimisation or just to tidy them up??

(2009-08-19, 09:32 PM)labrocca Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:Can you provide me with proof that this is true from two years ago? Maybe you haven't noticed but search engines have improved within the last two years.

I been doing this a long time. Search engines have been fine with dynamic urls for about 4-5 years now.

So what's the problem then?

Quote:That's half-lime. That's practically the definition right there. You even knew that the 1.4x SEO wasn't the optimal result but you went ahead and did it anyways.

We know that 1.4 will be just as outdated as 1.2 as technology and software advance. Why should we release different versions if we know it's going to be better the year after?

Quote:I mentioned once starting an actual SEO Team for MyBB development. I would join that team and even lead it if it was created. It's my opinion that SEO should be placed very high on the priority list for MyBB. It's one of the most attractive and requested features of any forum software.

We haven't seen your SEO skill-set to create a team and make you lead. - "Do what I say, not what I do."

--

Come on, you need to take a breather, versions are released to improve the previous. 1.4's SEO is one step closer and suffices for the time being. If during the time where the next major version is being developed you don't like something, there's the plugin system, wonderful, powerful, and serves a purpose.

(2009-08-19, 09:33 PM)frostschutz Wrote: [ -> ]The only remotely realistic alternative I see would be bundling Google SEO and MyBB, like how akismet is bundled with it. Our licenses are compatible, if you stick with GPL anyway. It would be the solution that requires the least amount of effort (couple of code changes to MyBB so the plugin can run without code modifications and without hacks). It could be done for 1.6, if both sides are willing.

I agree with it and will support this way!

Quote:There's no point arguing about thread-123.html because it's done and no one can go 2 years back in time.

I didn't start this thread. Just trying to shed light on what really happened.

Quote:you'd have to know what you're doing, you'd have to add a thousand lines of code and change a thousand lines more for that,

Not true. I looked into it already but I decided I didn't want to bother with so many core file changes. My guess is that less than 100 lines of code would be changes. Most URLs are handled by a handful of functions.

Quote:The only remotely realistic alternative I see would be bundling Google SEO and MyBB, like how akismet is bundled with it. Our licenses are compatible, if you stick with GPL anyway. It would be the solution that requires the least amount of effort (couple of code changes to MyBB so the plugin can run without code modifications and without hacks). It could be done for 1.6, if both sides are willing.

That's a solution that imho would be the wrong approach. Mybb can and as stated probably will take care of this in 2.0x. My only beef is that it wasn't done in 1.4x. I would rather they have not done what they did at all and simply waited for 2.0 to do it right. That's my opinion whether you like it or not. Just my view.

Quote:I was under the impression that the URLs were meant to just be more friendly for bots, hence the name Search Engine Friendly URLs, as opposed to being for proper optimisation... thread-123-post-123.html is easier to manage and use than forumdisplay.php?tid=123&pid=123... or am I just misunderstanding their main intended purpose?? Was it intended for proper optimisation or just to tidy them up??

You do misunderstand. Here are three possible URLs:
http://community.mybboard.net/thread-550...91360.html
http://community.mybboard.net/showthread.php?tid=55049
http://community.mybboard.net/SEO-thread...60tid55049

It's the third that's the most SE friendly. The first two realistically are the same and provide no real benefits for indexing. Again...my view. SEO is more of an art than a science.

Quote:We know that 1.4 will be just as outdated as 1.2 as technology and software advance. Why should we release different versions if we know it's going to be better the year after?

No one is listening. The 1.4x implementation was outdated during it's development. Had anyone done any research about the latest SEO procedures? Or was simply adding .html to a url thought to be cool?

Here is more examples. Now that comes up in top results for a search. Notice all the keywords in the url?

http://www.seo-consultant-services.co.uk...-urls.html

From that page:

Quote:To Google all are spiderable/indexed, but the first one is the best because Google takes all words it recognises from a URL and uses that in the rankings algorithm.

That url would be less effective if it was like Mybb and this:
http://www.seo-consultant-services.co.uk...-page.html

You gain no SEO benefit. That's the real difference. Again it's why Frosts SEO Google plugin is so popular. People want keyword URLs.

Quote:We haven't seen your SEO skill-set to create a team and make you lead.

Fair enough. You haven't seen my keyboard either but I am pretty sure I have one.

Quote:Come on, you need to take a breather,

Not really. I am fine. Is there a problem with a civil discussion about a MyBB feature that is actually very important?

Quote: If during the time where the next major version is being developed you don't like something, there's the plugin system, wonderful, powerful, and serves a purpose.

That's a scapegoat since even Frosts system requires core file edits. SEO is too important to leave as a plugin. It just perplexes me how SEO isn't placed higher on the priority list. I believe I am making a good argument why it's important and why I believe if the MyBB project placed it high priority it would benefit the project overall.

And it's the same argument why a Paid Subscription should be part of core system too. Some wrongly believe because I have the plugin that I don't want it in core. It's the opposite. I built it because I really really needed it. It's an essential feature for me and others. The promotion system is a step in the right direction at least. I guess I can say the same about SEO URLs but really...you can damage greatly a sites traffic by screwing up SEO. It's not something to take lightly.

If staff is too fearful to discuss this then go on and lock it. I just don't see the harm in the discussion. Something productive might come from it.

Actually, I have to agree with Labrocca. thread-x.html isn't very SEO friendly, nor does it help AS MUCH as for example seo-thread-urls.html, or something similar.