(2010-11-02, 05:00 PM)starzmon Wrote: [ -> ] (2010-11-02, 01:36 PM)Uncontrol Wrote: [ -> ]Why is this so important ...? Only you and the user will ever see the warnings. It's pretty obvious what a 0-point warning means.
It's because they're not the same thing. One type of warning contributes to the point total, the other doesn't. They don't serve the same purpose.
They both serve the same purpose; to warn the user of an inappropriate action. I don't understand what the point of viewing these in separated contexts would be. If you can justify it beyond meaningless categorization, it would be useful.
(2010-11-02, 05:20 PM)Uncontrol Wrote: [ -> ] (2010-11-02, 05:00 PM)starzmon Wrote: [ -> ] (2010-11-02, 01:36 PM)Uncontrol Wrote: [ -> ]Why is this so important ...? Only you and the user will ever see the warnings. It's pretty obvious what a 0-point warning means.
It's because they're not the same thing. One type of warning contributes to the point total, the other doesn't. They don't serve the same purpose.
They both serve the same purpose; to warn the user of an inappropriate action. I don't understand what the point of viewing these in separated contexts would be. If you can justify it beyond meaningless categorization, it would be useful.
I think Mark.M put it pretty nicely - "A warning means 'next time is a punishment.'"
A warning of 0 points does absolutely nothing to the user's account except add something to the log - and is an actual warning to the one that increases the user's "warning level".
While 0 point warnings serve the purpose, I would still prefer a separation between warnings and for lack of a better term, infractions.
To go a step further, a system where a number of infractions automatically transfer to 1 warning or something like that.
As for the justification for the separation, it is not a meaningless categorization but a very valid one. Think of it this way, when you get pulled over, and the cop decides to give you a warning, he gives you a warning, not a $0 ticket.
I still don't understand what the advantage of sorting them separately is.
In the user's case, viewing their warnings serves as a reminder of what they've done wrong and what level of punishment they received for it. It's certainly good to have the 0-point warnings listed here as well as it will remind them that they have received a warning for this already.
In the mod/admin's case, they should be able to see all warnings -- including 0-point ones -- at once in order to assess that user's level of behaviour and if they have already received a 0-point warning for something.
Remember that this is a WARNING system, not a PUNISHMENT system. A warning is always supposed to serve as a deterrent to bad behaviour regardless of how many "points" it is. You've not convinced me that there's any practical application from sorting "point warnings" from "non-point warnings".
Quote:I think Mark.M put it pretty nicely - "A warning means 'next time is a punishment.'"
Does it really? I think this is you speaking for yourself, not all possible applications for this system.
(2010-11-02, 05:29 PM)- G33K - Wrote: [ -> ]While 0 point warnings serve the purpose, I would still prefer a separation between warnings and for lack of a better term, infractions.
To go a step further, a system where a number of infractions automatically transfer to 1 warning or something like that.
Then just give them a warning if they've had infractions before, or give 1-point "warnings" and 3 point "infractions" or whatever. You guys are seriously over-thinking this and want to bend the software to your very very specific needs.
Quote:As for the justification for the separation, it is not a meaningless categorization but a very valid one. Think of it this way, when you get pulled over, and the cop decides to give you a warning, he gives you a warning, not a $0 ticket.
This analogy is pretty ridiculous, especially when you consider that a $0 ticket would have the same practical application as a warning, except it would be "off the record" (in which case, a Private Message telling them not to do it again would be the same thing as a "police warning")
(2010-11-02, 05:30 PM)Uncontrol Wrote: [ -> ] (2010-11-02, 05:29 PM)- G33K - Wrote: [ -> ]While 0 point warnings serve the purpose, I would still prefer a separation between warnings and for lack of a better term, infractions.
To go a step further, a system where a number of infractions automatically transfer to 1 warning or something like that.
Then just give them a warning if they've had infractions before, or give 1-point "warnings" and 3 point "infractions" or whatever. You guys are seriously over-thinking this and want to bend the software to your very very specific needs.
Well, I've already bent mine.
Also, "warnings" are never worth a positive point value.
Just to clear up the "infraction system" terminology:
A "warning" is a notification that raises the warning level by 0.
An "infraction" is a notification that raises the warning level by some positive number.
I think G33K read it wrong. You don't transfer multiple "infractions" into one "warning". An infraction is usually given
after a warning.
Quote:Just to clear up the "infraction system" terminology:
A "warning" is a notification that raises the warning level by 0.
An "infraction" is a notification that raises the warning level by some positive number.
No, I get this. I just don't see any reason to sort them separately.
(2010-11-02, 05:30 PM)Uncontrol Wrote: [ -> ]I still don't understand what the advantage of sorting them separately is.
In the user's case, viewing their warnings serves as a reminder of what they've done wrong and what level of punishment they received for it. It's certainly good to have the 0-point warnings listed here as well as it will remind them that they have received a warning for this already.
In the mod/admin's case, they should be able to see all warnings -- including 0-point ones -- at once in order to assess that user's level of behaviour and if they have already received a 0-point warning for something.
Remember that this is a WARNING system, not a PUNISHMENT system. A warning is always supposed to serve as a deterrent to bad behaviour regardless of how many "points" it is. You've not convinced me that there's any practical application from sorting "point warnings" from "non-point warnings".
Quote:I think Mark.M put it pretty nicely - "A warning means 'next time is a punishment.'"
Does it really? I think this is you speaking for yourself, not all possible applications for this system.
(2010-11-02, 05:29 PM)- G33K - Wrote: [ -> ]While 0 point warnings serve the purpose, I would still prefer a separation between warnings and for lack of a better term, infractions.
To go a step further, a system where a number of infractions automatically transfer to 1 warning or something like that.
Then just give them a warning if they've had infractions before, or give 1-point "warnings" and 3 point "infractions" or whatever. You guys are seriously over-thinking this and want to bend the software to your very very specific needs.
Quote:As for the justification for the separation, it is not a meaningless categorization but a very valid one. Think of it this way, when you get pulled over, and the cop decides to give you a warning, he gives you a warning, not a $0 ticket.
This analogy is pretty ridiculous, especially when you consider that a $0 ticket would have the same practical application as a warning, except it would be "off the record" (in which case, a Private Message telling them not to do it again would be the same thing as a "police warning")
I'm glad you found the analogy ridiculous because $0 ticket sounds ridiculous, same with 0point warnings.
So you want the mod to do the following:
1. Check if the user has an existing 0-point warning to decide whether to give a 1-point warning or a 0-point warning.
2. If giving a 0point warning either give the 0-point warning or PM the user to give an "Off the record" warning
On the other hand, if there was a separation and an automation (infractions to warnings as described above) then all the mod would have to do is issue an infraction and the system automatically determines whether to give a warning(x number of infractions) or just issue an infraction.
The reason I feel the separation is justified is because there are misdemeanors that users might be guilty of that do not warrant a warning and it would be easier to issue an infraction rather than having the mods write PMs to the users or issue 0point warnings.
EDIT:
I've modded at a site where infractions < warnings where a couple of infractions resulted in a warning, so I've been relating to them the same in this thread, regardless, the issue at hand is a separation of the 2 whatever you want to call them.
Quote:The reason I feel the separation is justified is because there are misdemeanors that users might be guilty of that do not warrant a warning and it would be easier to issue an infraction rather than having the mods write PMs to the users or issue 0point warnings.
How is this hypothetical infraction system easier than my hypothetical 0point warning? Separating them makes things more complicated, not simpler. Are we going to put "WARN" and "INFRACT" buttons in the postbit, too?
Quote:On the other hand, if there was a separation and an automation (infractions to warnings as described above) then all the mod would have to do is issue an infraction and the system automatically determines whether to give a warning(x number of infractions) or just issue an infraction.
Wait, I don't understand. What kind of a warning do you issue after multiple infractions? Is it a 0-point warning, or an actual PM sent to the user?
Because issuing a 0-point warning after multiple (1-point, etc.) infractions does sound a little ridiculous.
Quote:The reason I feel the separation is justified is because there are misdemeanors that users might be guilty of that do not warrant a warning and it would be easier to issue an infraction rather than having the mods write PMs to the users or issue 0-point warnings.
And now I'm confused.
(2010-11-02, 05:54 PM)Uncontrol Wrote: [ -> ]How is this hypothetical infraction system easier than my hypothetical 0point warning? Separating them makes things more complicated, not simpler. Are we going to put "WARN" and "INFRACT" buttons in the postbit, too?
No, we'd put them in the warning CP. I'll give you a screenshot of how I've hacked it into my forum. (But lunch period is almost over at school, so I'll do it when I get back home.)
MyBB has pretty much copied vBulletin in this regard - I'm just making the look-alike a bit more complete.
