Update issues 1.8.15 to .17

[KlausT]

Hi,

after the issues reported on the 1.8.16 update, I decided to skip it until developers could fix it on this version
It's frustrating to update using softaculous and then using MyBB and see it is not working properly.

If each time an update comes out your user base has to come here to check to who shouts for errors
or fixes, all I can say is this ain't a good practice for any dev.

Perhaps some use MyBB default theme, most don't
on my board, nobody could log in with that code mismatch.
It broke theme styling, and worse, I started receiving emails from 'No Sender'

I do my best to have a bug free BB but you are not making it easy!
Sorry for the tone, but this makes me suspicious each time you say Update.

I don't know how to update now or how .17 will break even more of my 'old' custom template.
But it would be great if you could do a 'read me' page for us to read with those known issues and how to fix them

Does the support crew have a page where everything is explained, isn't this how it should be?!

[Wires]

In regards to that authorization mismatch issue, if MyBB were to force edits to custom themes (as well as the default theme) there is a much greater chance of your theme breaking even more, which is why we don't. You should read the blog announcement and the release notes for every upgrade and not just blindly upgrade, that's "good practice". For example, if you were upgrading to 1.8.17 you should read the following:

https://blog.mybb.com/2018/07/15/mybb-1-...e-release/
https://mybb.com/versions/1.8.17/
https://github.com/mybb/mybb/issues?q=is...e%3A1.8.17
https://docs.mybb.com/1.8/install/upgrade/

All of these links can be found by the blog announcement (which I've also linked, first link). That's good practice.

[Devilshakerz]

The main things to watch out for with upgrading are template and CSS changes; after an upgrade administrators should go to  Find Updated Templates in ACP (mentioned after the upgrade is done) and make sure their themes' include new changes to templates - the degree of breaking existent themes can vary, and is often necessary to fix problems and security issues. For CSS files that have been modified (so most themes) the CSS linked in release notes will have to be appended or changed manually, according to instructions.
Other issues to look out for during the update are also being included in Release Notes and on the Blog.

We're aware that lack of "Find Updated Stylesheets" mechanism and, to a lesser degree, convoluted visual differentials for templates is a headache (e.g. the system should show what changes have been made in default theme to provide an example, rather than try to compare default and custom version). These will be worked on along with other improvements to the theming system in next 1.x branches; we'll also publish a Blog post soon with details on what needs to be fixed in the current upgrade mechanism.

[KlausT]

I went to check on what changed on ACP but I was so unaware of the login issue. It made me do a rollback losing 12 hours of shares and a few logged members lost all threads (who of course weren't happy)
It makes us all look bad, Me and you the MyBB devs.

What I am complaining about it is how you do it!

If you have your BB on Softaculous and after goes to MyBB update
(all info should be there)
Of course, issues can happen, however, you knew many of us skipped 1.8.16 for obvious reasons.

MyBB staff can take it in a constructive way or not, but I tell it how I felt it!


What for me is unacceptable is not being informed in a clear way on things that may happen.
I could schedule and ask members not to post or even close the BB for the time needed for the fixes.
But it's mandatory you inform us clearly. What is the point of having auto installers that instead of working for you end up working against you?!


We all have our customized templates with many plugins that had to be updated because who did those stopped caring to update them.
So we work hours on end to fix after fix
I can only speak for myself! I have to spend a few hundred hours from adding functionalities to redo all the design elements.

Please, could you improve how you communicate with your userbase in a clear way with your update docs… not 10 places to go read.

I will never give ACP access to anyone (staff/plugin devs) like I will never give the keys to my house. Maybe there is a way you could think about changing that practice. It's, at least, risky!

I see the potential on your product but if you want it on an auto installer platform, do it for regular users and not developers.

[Devilshakerz]

Thanks for the feedback; users shouldn't really have to browse through all Issues on GitHub unless they want to know the technical details (Issue titles in some cases are not exactly descriptive, too) - the place to watch is generally the Release Blog Post and Release Notes; the comment in both places is the same (2nd paragraph on https://blog.mybb.com/2018/07/04/mybb-1-...e-release/ is included on https://mybb.com/versions/1.8.16/) - in the case of 1.8.16, we've also added some notes on the Blog, mostly related to unexpected issues after the release.

For 1.8.18, the comments will look like this:

Changes include added support for Mixer videos and multi-file attachments, modified Word Filter behavior, fixes to the mailing queue and improved compatibility with SQLite and MySQL 8. Theme CSS changes may be required and administrators may need to review Word Filters.

These will be included in the Notes and on the Blog - let us know if this format looks OK.


Automated installers were problematic in the past as the Team used to patch packages that were already released, and the packages that were already published e.g. by Softaculous didn't contain them. Instead of doing that we're more likely to simply publish new version that users can upgrade to directly (e.g. 1.8.16 was partially broken, so users on 1.8.15 could upgrade to 1.8.17 using the Full Package where the upgrade issues for 1.8.16 were fixed).

[Wires]

I went to check on what changed on ACP but I was so unaware of the login issue. It made me do a rollback losing 12 hours of shares and a few logged members lost all threads (who of course weren't happy)
It makes us all look bad, Me and you the MyBB devs.

Oh, so you didn't follow the instructions on the blog? Fair enough, maybe you missed it. What about the Upgrade doc where it recommends that you close your board and later on use the Find Updated Templates tool? You missed that too? Dang! Yes, MyBB could of communicated better (which they've now started doing in numerous ways) but here you're just trying to outright push your problems onto us.

If you have your BB on Softaculous and after goes to MyBB update
(all info should be there)

MyBB have no control over Softaculous or the content placed on there. When MyBB releases an update, Softaculous will manually add that update to their script when it suits them.

We all have our customized templates with many plugins that had to be updated because who did those stopped caring to update them.
So we work hours on end to fix after fix
I can only speak for myself! I have to spend a few hundred hours from adding functionalities to redo all the design elements.

I'm not sure how this fits into this post. This just goes to show that running a forum nowadays requires a lot more than drag n drop or auto-installers.

I will never give ACP access to anyone (staff/plugin devs) like I will never give the keys to my house. Maybe there is a way you could think about changing that practice. It's, at least, risky!

I see the potential on your product but if you want it on an auto installer platform, do it for regular users and not developers.

Again, I'm still not sure how this fits into this post. Not wanting to give ACP access to anyone is completely fine, just be prepared to follow instructions (which you haven't done so far) and do some research.

Again, MyBB has nothing to do with Softaculous.

This doesn't seem very much constructive at all.

[Serpius]

The main things to watch out for with upgrading are template and CSS changes; after an upgrade administrators should go to  Find Updated Templates in ACP (mentioned after the upgrade is done) and make sure their themes' include new changes to templates - the degree of breaking existent themes can vary, and is often necessary to fix problems and security issues. For CSS files that have been modified (so most themes) the CSS linked in release notes will have to be appended or changed manually, according to instructions.
Other issues to look out for during the update are also being included in Release Notes and on the Blog.

We're aware that lack of "Find Updated Stylesheets" mechanism and, to a lesser degree, convoluted visual differentials for templates is a headache (e.g. the system should show what changes have been made in default theme to provide an example, rather than try to compare default and custom version). These will be worked on along with other improvements to the theming system in next 1.x branches; we'll also publish a Blog post soon with details on what needs to be fixed in the current upgrade mechanism.

Ok... for a poor sod like me who don't know that much about CSS and template coding, reading up on 'Find Updated Templates' is a meaningless adventure for me because most of the stuff is "Greek" to me.

So, if I have a customized theme(s), I contact the author of that theme in question and have them fix it for me. 
Many reliable and dependable theme creators will do this for free because I did pay them and some of the authors will have a (for a lack of a better phrase) an extended warranty for the customized for a certain period of time... anywhere from 3-6 months.

It's worth the money and the time for me to contact those theme creators to fix their themes up because more than likely, they have more than one theme in their portfolio and those themes (paid or free) need to be updated anyway.

I am very fortunate that I have an Admin who is excellent in many facets of MyBB and will do temporary or in some cases permanent fixes to one of the themes. 
He also does a lot of behind-the-scenes work on my website, most of which are security related.
Without his valuable contribution, my website would have failed long ago.

Just my 2 cents...

[KlausT]

This can be constructive to the point where i could even help out MyBB
in the sole area where i can… communication.

So if the team needs to do it 'for dummies' like I am - I can surely point you out flaws Dev's don't even see them, I know why they don't… they usually assume people know.

So don't doubt it is constructive, because it is… if it was to wreck it from top to bottom why would i spend my time then?

I didn't check the blog! My bad
On ACP updated templates (saw it in 30 minutes and thought) ok in the weekend I can solve its minor things
That is in greek for those with average CSS knowledge, but I would reserve a full day for it

On Softaculous updates, right after update, you are sent to a MyBB update page - It's exactly there where it must be clear and sorry to have an opinion, it isn't clear!

Unfortunately who did my template no longer works with MyBB, but Serpius you are right having an admin is paramount when things are not easy. These 2 last updates were far from easy.

About following instructions
because i will not give away any admin access to who I don't know
It is common sense.
I am sure many devs have good intentions and want to help. I said many, but in light of some plugins out there i can say ... only MANY and NOT ALL.

I am asking a friend to help me and I will go trough the changes and fixes
but also the ones it wrecks.

Devilshakers thank you for helping out,
Serpius also, greek is something that should be corrected even to the ones who know a bit of CSS

Wires you are judging too quicly and if your aplying to be the MyBB knight, so be it.
I like it easy and intuitive how it should be, again, it's my own view
If it helps I wished i knew half of what you know and how easy it is for you to handle the updates.

For me the road to update will be going to a friend php programmer i know well and working side by side 'chopping wood' this weekend. This could be avoidable, that is all i can say

If any in MyBB staff needs help or suggestions please say

[Serpius]

This can be constructive to the point where i could even help out MyBB
in the sole area where i can… communication.

-- SNIP --

If any in MyBB staff needs help or suggestions please say

This was discussed about 6 weeks ago. 

Check this THREAD.

[KlausT]

I guess this is up to who manages MyBB to understand where they are falling short on users.

Also up to them to ask people to join.

I can use a stage to check how updates work, but I am nobody to give hints on how to fix those
I don't know how to.

I do know if what people write is made for less skilled users like myself

For instance where is the instructions from who updates from 1.8.15 to 1.8.17
and what implication you can expect on your custom themes that the vast majority of us use

Instead of doing this in threads why can't we have a how to
step by step

This is what I don't get, you use team time in answering many threads when 90% of those issues could be dealt in a single doc.

I am about to start updating again to the latest build, but the php programmer already lost over 3 hours
now I will be joining him for the implementation.

Wish me luck