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1.8 Next development steps ("1.10")
#11
1.6 could be made into a tag or something, and then people could look at it whenever they want. If I recall, tags are branches of sorts.

As for branches, perhaps something like this:
stable - For the current stable (e.g. 1.8)
master - For the next version (e.g. 1.10)
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#12
There are already tags for every release, including 1.6 releases and 1.8 releases.
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#13
- Enhancements/Improvements

I like the idea of the caching but I think something that has been left out for way too long and needs to get implemented would be PDO support for MySQL.

Since there is a plan for 3rd party libraries perhaps delegate the database connections using a 3rd party library so we get more options, as well!

Another thing that needs to be put into priority, is the decision of the new editor for 2.0 and backport it into 1.8/1.10, the current MyBB editor has served us well for many years now but, IT IS OUTDATED as is and need an urgent overhaul.
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#14
(2017-11-17, 05:41 PM)sleeping Wrote: - Enhancements/Improvements

I like the idea of the caching but I think something that has been left out for way too long and needs to get implemented would be PDO support for MySQL.

Since there is a plan for 3rd party libraries perhaps delegate the database connections using a 3rd party library so we get more options, as well!

Another thing that needs to be put into priority, is the decision of the new editor for 2.0 and backport it into 1.8/1.10, the current MyBB editor has served us well for many years now but, IT IS OUTDATED as is and need an urgent overhaul.

PDO is definitely planned for all supported DB engines. We also want to try and get a query builder implemented, though this will be a slow process.

SCEditor are currently working towards a v2.0 release, which we hope will be released before 1.8.14 so that we can add it to that release. It should fix many bugs and issues with the current editor.
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#15
Stop all 2.0 development is my opinion.

Ever think of taking a community poll about how many users want it or would bother to upgrade?

Likely my post won't be popular with the MyBB team but I feel like it needed to be stated.

I can tell you right now that MyBB 1.8x branch has a ton of issues not resolved and features that could be fine-tuned and improved. You could likely spend 2 years just on my personal list of things for you to fix and improve.

Your major concern should be a default responsive theme imho. And that could be done with the current branch.

Answer me this. Is the idea to rebuild 2.0 from scratch something the community wants or just something the developers want to do? Because I don't see anyone calling out for the features you're talking about. We don't need Composer, Twig, Swift, or any of the planned features that I can tell.

And please, this is not a personal attack on the team. I'm trying to make a point that maybe you guys need to consider the community neither needs or wants 2.0 in the way you're planning. Sure, we like upgrades but 2.0 is going to BREAK everything. And no one wants that except the dev team.

I think you're planning features that go above your core audience which is home based webmasters that want to run their own small forums with free software. You complicate that and you'll lose your base imho. Unless MyBB 2.0 plans to be paid software and go after commercial clients I think these new features are a bad idea.

I'm stating this for the record so that in a couple years I can say, "told you so."

Quote:the current MyBB editor has served us well for many years now but, IT IS OUTDATED as is and need an urgent overhaul.

Agreed.

Quote:needs to get implemented would be PDO support for MySQL

Agreed.

Baby steps please.

EDIT: Oh and before I get remarks that this thread isn't technically about 2.0. It is, because it's obvious you want to try to bridge 1.10 into 2.0 by making massive changes to the backend.
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#16
(2017-11-17, 06:52 PM)labrocca Wrote: Stop all 2.0 development is my opinion.

Ever think of taking a community poll about how many users want it or would bother to upgrade?

Likely my post won't be popular with the MyBB team but I feel like it needed to be stated.

I can tell you right now that MyBB 1.8x branch has a ton of issues not resolved and features that could be fine-tuned and improved. You could likely spend 2 years just on my personal list of things for you to fix and improve.

Your major concern should be a default responsive theme imho.  And that could be done with the current branch.

Answer me this.  Is the idea to rebuild 2.0 from scratch something the community wants or just something the developers want to do?  Because I don't see anyone calling out for the features you're talking about.  We don't need Composer, Twig, Swift, or any of the planned features that I can tell.  

And please, this is not a personal attack on the team.  I'm trying to make a point that maybe you guys need to consider the community neither needs or wants 2.0 in the way you're planning. Sure, we like upgrades but 2.0 is going to BREAK everything.  And no one wants that except the dev team.

I think you're planning features that go above your core audience which is home based webmasters that want to run their own small forums with free software.  You complicate that and you'll lose your base imho.  Unless MyBB 2.0 plans to be paid software and go after commercial clients I think these new features are a bad idea.  

I'm stating this for the record so that in a couple years I can say, "told you so."

Quote:the current MyBB editor has served us well for many years now but, IT IS OUTDATED as is and need an urgent overhaul.

Agreed.

Quote:needs to get implemented would be PDO support for MySQL

Agreed.

Baby steps please.

EDIT: Oh and before I get remarks that this thread isn't technically about 2.0.  It is, because it's obvious you want to try to bridge 1.10 into 2.0 by making massive changes to the backend.

Changes would happen slowly across several releases with 1.10, rather than happening all at once. Keeping the exact same code alive for the next 5-10 years isn't the best approach to things in my opinion. Introducing well tested components takes  alot of pressure off of developers and brings us more up to date with standards found across other open source stacks.

Obviously we do have bugs - hence why we keep releasing new releases. You've mentioned several times now that you've hit issues, but have yet to actually report them. I also PMed you to let you know that we're happy to accept bug reports via GitHub if you don't feel like posting them on the forum. We do want to fix any issues, and a 1.10 release would focus on doing just that, whilst also starting the process of modernising the codebase.

Regarding the responsive theme in particular, that has been discussed extensively. There have been several approaches floated, including an official theme for 1.8 which is responsive and released first outside of the core (so that updates and iterations can be worked on at a faster pace) before becoming a core theme; a brand new default theme with the current theme being kept as a secondary option; and updating the current theme to be responsive. Each option has downsides that have also been discussed elsewhere several times, and right now we are leaning towards making it the new default and it being a completely new theme rather than absed upon the current one. No matter which approach we take with it, there's a high chance of plugins and 3rd party themes breaking - something that will no doubt cause many support threads and posts of outrage.
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#17
(2017-11-17, 06:52 PM)labrocca Wrote: Ever think of taking a community poll about how many users want it or would bother to upgrade?

https://community.mybb.com/thread-213361...85687.html


Quote:I can tell you right now that MyBB 1.8x branch has a ton of issues not resolved and features that could be fine-tuned and improved. You could likely spend 2 years just on my personal list of things for you to fix and improve.
Quote:Is the idea to rebuild 2.0 from scratch something the community wants or just something the developers want to do?  Because I don't see anyone calling out for the features you're talking about. We don't need Composer, Twig, Swift, or any of the planned features that I can tell.  
Quote:I'm trying to make a point that maybe you guys need to consider the community neither needs or wants 2.0 in the way you're planning. Sure, we like upgrades but 2.0 is going to BREAK everything.  And no one wants that except the dev team.

The decision to switch to package-based development and distribution (i.e. MyBB 2.0), increasing quality and development efficiency (and decreasing the number of issues by doing so) was based on technical experience alone when the turning down of feature requests because of 1.x limitations is excluded; this is not chasing the next shiny thing.
Maintaining current codebase is increasingly inconvenient making it harder to provide a product of acceptable quality, which along with the origin of most 1.8 Issues (i.e. low quality and lack of standards; a substantial part of problems is not documented/discovered) makes for rewriting the software or replacing parts of it with better solutions.

Quote:We don't need [...] Swift, [...]
Quote:I can tell you right now that MyBB 1.8x branch has a ton of issues not resolved and features that could be fine-tuned and improved. You could likely spend 2 years just on my personal list of things for you to fix and improve.
The current mailing system has been, and still is, problematic and replacing it with a well-tested alternative would eliminate a class of issues associated with it.

Quote:We don't need [...] Twig, [...]
(2017-11-17, 06:52 PM)labrocca Wrote: Your major concern should be a default responsive theme imho.  And that could be done with the current branch.
Highly difficult without a proper templating engine (Twig was chosen); limitations of the current one is often mentioned by theme creators.


Quote:We don't need Composer, [...]
Quote:
Quote:needs to get implemented would be PDO support for MySQL

Agreed.

Since don't want to reinvent the wheel, a database PHP package would be used which is also part of the long-term goal (2.0) - the package along with its dependencies would have to be integrated in away that makes for easy management and development, i.e. Composer, which was declared unneeded in your post (the list, in this fashion, should also include PDO or any other backend solution).
devilshakerz.com/pgp (DF3A 34D9 A627 42E5 BC6A 6750 1F2F B8AA 28FF E1BC) ▪ keybase.io/devilshakerz
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#18
Quote: Keeping the exact same code alive for the next 5-10 years isn't the best approach to things in my opinion.

3-5 years would be reasonable imho. Fact is that you'll never catch up to standards. What you start today and plan if it's not implemented within a year you'll be behind. Just how it is nowadays. Do you agree?

Quote:You've mentioned several times now that you've hit issues, but have yet to actually report them.

I'm going to have to start making a list and post them all at once. It's a mix of suggestions and bugs. I may even separate them. I'll do my best to provide details when I'm ready. My guess is that it will be early 2018 unless there is something big that's a problem. My fear is that I'll get the "denied support" response. So maybe, just maybe, you'll alter the policy enough that if I post a list of problems you can actually provide support. Honestly, I follow the policies of MyBB and I'm not asking for special treatment, just fair treatment.

Quote:There have been several approaches floated, including an official theme for 1.8 which is responsive and released first outside of the core

I bet you that almost every MyBB admin has a responsive design theme as their #1 request from the team. Everything else is just tech mumbo-jumbo to most of us. We all need our sites mobile friendly but we risk breaking with MyBB upgrades. If you notice almost everyone runs default templates with minor edits to header/footer and css changes. Templates stay close to default except for plugins.

The need for the team to be kept up to tech standards is not the same need for the webmasters using MyBB to keep up with SEO and interface standards. So please weigh that important distinction carefully.
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#19
Quote:The need for the team to be kept up to tech standards is not the same need for the webmasters using MyBB to keep up with SEO and interface standards. So please weigh that important distinction carefully.

Oh yeah, we recognise that. That's why we're discussing these kinds of things rather than just jumping in like we have in the past. Being open with the process and explaining why we do what we do should help keep us on track with the community as well as porividing insight for comunity members on what we're doing.

I'll certainly welcome any details you provide. Either posting them all at once or one at a time will be useful, and we'll simply split them into separae issues as needed (working one issue at a time is clearly easier than 100 at once).

Keeping up to date with constantly evolving standards is difficult, but maintaining support for versions and code that have been deprecated/reached end of life (eg: PHP 5.2, 5.3, 5.4) several years back isn't the answer either. We have to try and strike a balance. Having a codebase that looks and behaves more like other common codebases and design patterns may also be advantageous in luring other developers to the project - something that is never a bad thing.
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#20
Would you believe that this is my first public post on MyBB in two and a half years? Crazy.

On discussing 1.10, there was a clear emphasis on working closely with BBO, mega-board owners and plugin developers to make sure that every implemented change was carefully mitigated as much as possible. That's why the release cycle would be stepped, and expertise from the team (including myself) would be available for everyone to implement any changes to their site.
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