Need reply to a post in locked thread!

[lost puppy]

I have to ask as it is winding me up some what!

In this post (in a locked thread so I cannot reply there) https://community.mybb.com/thread-242014...pid1397162 a "Staff" member stated:

I would like to clarify that pedophilia is not a problem in most globalized nations that respect Human Rights.

Now what does this mean?

Does it mean:

• That pedophilia is considered as "OK" by the staff member?
  
• Or that pedophilia is not a problem in "globalized nations that respect Human Rights" <<< BUT what does that ACTUALLY mean?
  

Pedophilia is a massive problem worldwide!

It is morally and ethically so bloody wrong .... It is a mental sickness of the highest degree.

Anyone who promotes any sexualization of CHILDREN is a complete and utter demonic being .... totally SICK to the core (if they had a 'soul' in the past then they have now given such to EVIL)!

I want to know what was meant by that statement .... I will not interact on a site where the "Staff" considers the abuse of children to be "OK"!

And I also want to ask any moral members .... Is there another forum which helps with the MyBB code (one which considers pedophilia as the sick, twisted, demonic sh*t it is)?

[MattyWjeisz]

I think that perhaps his words have been somewhat misconstrued and taken out of context.

To clarify: MyBB (including ALL staff) does not, will not, and has not condoned the exploitation of children in any shape or form. MyBB does not, however, have the ability to control what subject matter our freely available software is purposed for.

Pedophilia in and of itself is not a criminal offence in most countries. It is, by definition, an attraction to minors. That does not mean those attractions are acted upon. When they are acted upon, it then becomes a criminal offence and is punished accordingly by the laws that govern those crimes in each locality.

Ethically, I think we can all agree that it is in fact wrong. Legally, we can only enforce our own policies and procedures on sites that are owned and operated by MyBB. Outside of that, we can only do as you do - report and wait for the server owners or those responsible to take action if they deem that such actions are necessary.

I have not personally seen the site(s) in question so I cannot speak about the content, but as the staff member you’re referring to has undertaken legal studies, and has the absolutely best interests of MyBB and our customers at heart, I can be certain that if something could be done, it would have already been done. We must operate within the laws of those which we are governed, whether we agree with those laws or not.

[Omar G.]

Hi,

I apologize that the phrase was confusing, I did update the required portion to make it clear I speak from a legality standpoint.

• That pedophilia is considered as "OK" by the staff member?
  

Pedophilia is out of the scope of the MyBB project. This is the exact reason the decision to stop and avoid public discussions about this arisen conflict was taken in the first place.

If you believe someone is breaking our support policy, feel free to bring that up so we can decide the proper action from us, like in this case.

If you think somebody is committing a crime, maybe related to (sexual) child abuse, you can report that to the proper government or state intuitions in your area or the area where the crime is being committed. If pedophilia is illicit in your area, you can report that as well.

The MyBB team and its staff does not support (sexual) child abuse.

Regards.

[Laird]

Read the room, guys.

Privately, Omar, you have differentiated to me between paedophilia (sexual attraction to children) and pederasty (sex with children), as though there was a clear and binary distinction. There is not. There is a range of offensive and harmful behaviour beyond mere ("mere"!) sexual attraction to children that ordinary people associate with paedophilia. Note that Encyclopedia Britannica defines paedophilia (my emphasis) as "in conventional usage, a psychosexual disorder, generally affecting adults, characterized by sexual interest in prepubescent children or attempts to engage in sexual acts with prepubescent children".

You prefer to keep this conversation private because you know that most people do not share your definition, and you wish for it to prevail without challenge. No. The conversation needs to be had publicly.

MyBB community members deserve better than the taint of association with paedophilia apologism entailed by your restrictive and unconventional use of the word. The edit to your post does not go far enough. By most people's definition, paedophilia very much is illicit in civilised nations, and is abhorred by sound-minded individuals. Fix your post properly to remove this taint from the rest of us.

[bv64]

MyBB community members deserve better than the taint of association with paedophilia apologism entailed by your restrictive and unconventional use of the word. The edit to your post does not go far enough. By most people's definition, paedophilia very much is illicit in civilised nations, and is abhorred by sound-minded individuals. Fix your post properly to remove this taint from the rest of us.

I absolutely agree with Laird

[Omar G.]

Hi,

What matters here is the difference between child abuse, being illicit, and whatever else, that is licit.

The forum that triggered all of this discussion does not appear to engage on child abuse material or media, but only accused of such. We DID mark the user as denied from support based on the content found in his forum, but we did not find any material or media of child abuse at all.

The MyBB project and its team does not approve nor encourage the management or distribution of child abuse material or media, and to assume otherwise by default is bold at best.

If you so happen to find something that is illicit in any website, please report such to the proper government institutions. If you happen to find evidence that some user around here is hosting child abuse material or media, feel free to report it to us so we can ban them from this community.

We can do little about people that engage in licit and lawful behavior.

"or attempts to engage in sexual acts with prepubescent children"

Attempts to engage in sexual acts with prepubescent children is generally illicit behavior. If you find reasonable evidence or information that leads to think some users host or distribute child abuse material or media, please let us know so we can take the best action from our side. I'd suggest you report such cases to the proper government or state institutions for they to follow on as required by law.

You prefer to keep this conversation private because you know that most people do not share your definition, and you wish for it to prevail without challenge. No. The conversation needs to be had publicly.

The reason for keeping this discussion out of the support threads from users is because people do not differentiate between what is illicit and what is licit. People need to understand what the MyBB project can do regarding illicit content, let alone licit or lawful content.

I don't need my definition to prevail at all.

The edit to your post does not go far enough. By most people's definition, paedophilia very much is illicit in civilised nations, and is abhorred by sound-minded individuals. Fix your post properly to remove this taint from the rest of us.

I did update my post a bit more to clarify. The usage of the word _pedophilia_ seems to be getting us to nowhere. No user here has been found to be sharing child abuse material or media.

Regards.

[HLFadmin]

When Matty says

but as the staff member you’re referring to has undertaken legal studies,

and you look at the entire conversation from a little distance, you'll recognize how the language is parsed and probably come to accept that that's the best you will get as an explanation.
Kind of like programming: the exact syntax and spelling is required to make sense. Emotion is sloppy and gets in the way.
We can't ignore either, but have to see the issue from a distance. @Laird, you've certainly made your point, to which I completely agree. But any more, and you're beating a dead horse.
As a survivor of such abuse I understand the emotion. As a programmer, I understand the logic.

I'll say no more on this.

[lost puppy]

Thank you for the replies.

You have answered my question.

I hear that the UK may be allowing "Slavery" again (beginning next year) .... so I guess that this forum will happily help folk set up MyBB forums to "SELL" other people!

My moral compass is not defined by another and near all countries are ruled by the worst of people (kleptocracy) .... and those sick people make the laws!

While I thank all those, past and present, for making excellent forum software .... I do not wish to be any part of a forum that allows any abuse (or helps in that abuse) of children.

So I will take my leave and find other avenues for discussion of MyBB (or maybe look at other forum software).

I wish you all to be well .... but fcuk me .... trying to "protect" pedophilia by citing laws .... really sad.

[Omar G.]

I hear that the UK may be allowing "Slavery" again (beginning next year) .... so I guess that this forum will happily help folk set up MyBB forums to "SELL" other people!

On a side note, the USA does allow slavery :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth...ution#Text

Not just theoretically, but in factual practice:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labo...ted_States

If the time comes when any user attempts to seek support for a forum related to forced labor slavery, be assure that I shall stand to deny them support, just as in the case that brought this discussion up.

Because additional to the law, forums seeking support should respect basic human rights.

Just like you, my moral compass isn't defined by what people find offensive or abhorrent. Even if they are 335,893,238 people (USA population accodring to Wikipedia).

While I thank all those, past and present, for making excellent forum software .... I do not wish to be any part of a forum that allows any abuse (or helps in that abuse) of children.

Again, the MyBB project and its team does not approve nor encourage the management or distribution of child abuse material or media, and to assume otherwise by default is bold at best.

If you so happen to find something that is illicit in any website, please report such to the proper government institutions. If you happen to find evidence that some user around here is hosting child abuse material or media, feel free to report it to us so we can ban them from this community.

So I will take my leave and find other avenues for discussion of MyBB (or maybe look at other forum software).

I wish you all to be well .... but fcuk me .... trying to "protect" pedophilia by citing laws .... really sad.

That would be a bit harsh in my opinion, but it is your decision.

The MyBB project is more than just a few people who make decisions. The MyBB project is composed of the whole community, including the people who gather in this forum, the GHithub repositories, or other places, to offer support and contribute.

If you attempt to force an "all or nothing" outcome, the outcome might always be unpleasant for you.

You are still free to let users know you disagree with the content they offer and as such your unwillingness and suggestion to avoid providing support to such users.

Just avoid diverging threads into offtopic arguments. (I.e. avoid diverging a support thread into a lynching discussion about something you disagree with.)

Regards.

[Crazycat]

Well...
As an user, not member of the MyBB team, and involved in different projects about internet and its safety, I've a few thinks.

MyBB is just a tool, the team and its community work on it, but as all tools, it can be used by bad peoples or in bad intentions. The community is not reponsible of what people does with his tool, it can just restrains the support. It's the problem with open-source. Will you reject all open-source projects because some perverts use some of them for immoral things ?

I trust the MyBB team, I don't think they encourage anything immoral (even if legal...), but they don't have any way to act.

If you discover a forum (MyBB or other engine) about pedophilia or slavery, act as you want with the official autorities, but MyBB can't act, they are not an authority.

Stupid example: you see someone driving a toyota car and kill someone. Is Toyota complice ? No.

sorry, hard to explain what I mean, english is not my maternal language, but what I mean is that the MyBB community is not responsible of what some people do with a MyBB, and they have no real powers anywhere else than here.