URL as mandatory in support?

[bv64]

Referring to the plan of HLFAdmin and the approval of Laird, as well as the plans of Omar G. and my initiative in the topic https://community.mybb.com/thread-242005.html

P.S. Furthermore, I would be in favor of not only recommending but also requiring the specification of a board URL in support in order to see whether the requesting board complies with the Support Egilibility Policy, including with regard to MyBB copyright.
Some of the free supporters have become a little more suspicious since the case a month ago.

I would first like to apologize to Laird for using his topic with the survey for another initiative. We have been working on this initiative for quite some time
Omar G. is right, we should separate that and that is what I want to do with this topic

He wrote:

Even if added, we can't force people to share their forum domain, as some might even work off the public net.

Of course you can't force anyone to reveal their URL, but in my opinion anyone who has nothing to hide can do so.
I've had forums that were completely closed to guests, but I could have given a URL at any time. Often just a look at the source code is enough to identify errors in the cookies or the board URL. Without a URL you can only guess.

Is every site that doesn't reveal a URL to be classified as criminal? Certainly not, but the suspicion quickly arises that something is illegal or violates the support guidelines, e.g. lack of copyright from MyBB, if you don't want to show it. At least that's how I feel.
If you hang out on the darknet, you're certainly not doing it to sell children's books or sweets. There will be reasons for that. So as a free supporter, such boards are out of the question for me anyway; I don't want to and won't give any support there.

Since MyBB cannot force people to do this, although Omar G. mentioned plans in the other thread to make it mandatory, the only thing left to do is to decide for yourself whether you want to provide help without a URL or not. Better than nothing? Or is there a way to make the recommended URL a mandatory URL?

What do you think?

thanks in advance
bv64 / Lu

[MattyWjeisz]

I agree that this is definitely something worth looking at. In particular given recent events, perhaps this would bypass much of a need to authenticate sites against potential violations as it's there for anyone to see. In saying that, I feel the following could be possible issues:

- Some folks work offline in a localhost environment and otherwise cannot share the address
- If being publicly posted, it may drive spam bots to the site
- If someone was to unintentionally post the URL and potential access information (such as database details) together (especially if they are new to running their own sites) it could open it up to malicious intent

It obviously does have positives - we're able to see the issue first-hand, we can be certain the site isn't intentionally violating any MyBB or support eligibility policies, and it gives non-staff members some peace of mind that they are indeed offering support to moral sites. There are a few things to take into consideration, but I like the idea.

[HLFadmin]

Today, the majority of support requests in this MyBB community are answered without the need for a URL. URL disclosure is optional and may facilitate a solution sooner. Or maybe not, as many threads are abandoned, perhaps solved from a simple clue provided elsewhere. "Search is your friend."

Mandatory disclosure, as discussed here, is a tool for support exclusion by an open source community. It has the benefit of upholding community standards. I will point out, however, that many people here have already passed their first test of bypassing parental control restrictions well before discovering MyBB forum software.

I run a private closed forum of mostly retired techs and some others that are invited to join.
It's easy enough to create a test account and limit permissions and access to a specific forum for troubleshooting.
I have done that on a couple of occasions to have hosting support deal with server issues.
URL disclosure while maintaining privacy is possible.

The instance that precipitated this current discussion is a classic case of why parental controls are necessary. Sunshine is the best disinfectant, but workarounds will be found by the nefarious.

Regardless of community policy, I will exercise my judgment of support or non-support.

[Laird]

No need to apologise, @bv64.

I agree that board URLs should be mandatory, preferably by technical means such as a required field when starting a support thread, or as a required profile field. Those who for valid reasons are unable to supply one - e.g., because they are working on a local, development board which they have not pushed to production - should at least be required to share the ultimate intended production URL as well as a description of the intended purpose of the board. Likewise, a description of the purpose of a public board with only private, inaccessible forums should be required when supplying a URL which otherwise would be acceptable.

[Omar G.]

I think the idea was to update MySupport and add this feature in it, maybe I will review the progress soon.
https://github.com/OUGC-Network/MySupport

Even if an optional field, it might help to motivate people to support more for those threads where it is shared.

[Joey_Pham423]

I think this is a good Idea. It's just a lot easier if there's a live link. This way OP will get the best and fastest support as possible. In the event if they don't have a live url, then I guess they can throw in more pictures and as much detail as possible.
I personally prefer live url anyways, because F12 FTW lol

[Black Angel]

It is a good idea, and something should be done about CSAM, and those who create and distribute it as well, but my question is, how will it affect those who prefer not to post their url publicly?

I ask because the reason I don't post mine, or the one I run for a business publicly, is because I have gotten tons of bots and spammers just from posting mine on support. I have often had issues that were seemingly unique to the people here, having gotten 100s of views with no reply and some of the time, I've either figured it out myself and posted back saying as such to help others (if I remember to do so), some members like bv64 and staff have helped me, while others remained unanswered even with pictures. I've been collecting those topics like Infinity Stones.

I have been through this with every support forum I have ever been on over the last 20 years such as PB, IF, JFB, IPBFree, SpreeBB, and a bunch of others.. and I have kept my site off of search engines for this exact reason.

Even this forum gets hit with bots like crazy, and though you do your best, y'all don't always catch it, I've reported a few myself if I see it while here but that is traffic that I prefer NOT to have.. which is why this support forum has been the exception to the others.

Otherwise, anytime I've asked for help and gotten a response, I've privately sent my url to that person with a link to my topic instead.. so that they don't think I am pm advertising.

Also, the statement "if you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to worry about" etc, is gaslighting at best, and grooming at worst.. and (not to sound like an old fart) part of the reason why we now have issues with human decency, privacy, deepfakes, online toxicity, and social media that didn't exist 20 years ago and prior. This has been the reason why people have been returning to forums in general.

Sure, [as a case in point] I have nothing to hide in general, I am happily married to my husband, but that doesn't mean I am going to let someone film if we are otherwise engaged in the bedroom, and the fact that I don't do this, doesn't mean that I have something to hide, or am doing something wrong, it simply means that I value my privacy and would like to keep that aspect of my life private.

The same goes for using the bathroom with the door closed. Sure everybody poops, but I'm not going to let you film that either. If that is your thing, kudos, but keep me out of it.

Quite frankly, the argument is often used to groom people into unwittingly participating in that individual's own personal kink without bothering with consent from others. A person with a fetish for voyeurism would make the same argument if they wanted to see others nude without paying for it from consenting adults. I'm pretty sure that a LOT of sections on P.Hub and other sites like it would not exist without someone having uttered those words. It is probably why social media has become the toxic mess that it is now.

CSAM, as disgusting and morally reprehensible as it is, (and probably proof that Neanderthals still walk among us) has always been an issue, even on hosted services such as the ones I mentioned above, it was the reason I started my forum in lieu of using WinMX chatrooms as a broke college kid using it for ebooks back then, and whenever I saw it (on WinMX people had it in their listed share files, and on the hosts above, it was posted on GFX forums I found when I was just learning to use Photoshop) I reported them and moved on. The anti-leeching tools I used for WinMX also recorded ips, so if I came across someone sharing this content, I would ban them and report the ip via email to the isp that owned it with a screenshot of that person's files. 

TL;DR: People have different reasons for doing what they do, and aside from being short-sighted, it isn't fair to assume that people have something to hide just because they don't want to do a certain thing. I just gave my reason for not doing so, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were a myriad of others.

That said though, I wonder how it would be done where forum software is concerned, without it dipping further into something Orwellian? Surely that content is privately hosted with the software, and paid software does rely on people reporting others using nulled versions, so it seems like that would have to be the case here as well. Entire hosts have been taken down because of this content.

Paid software companies would be better able to report where legit licenses are concerned since they would have that person's payment details and they could report to the host that owns the domain, and follow the chain that way, but even still that requires people to report it.. but beyond that, what else could be done?

In either case, they out themselves.