(2012-08-13, 11:38 AM)Dannymh Wrote: [ -> ]Don't stick to too much of a rigid release date or process. I have worked as part of a comercisl product release team. When we had share holders to answer too we released 1 update a quarter. Thankfully we were bought our by a new partner who reprivatised us. This made our release cycle less stringent and therefore Rach release is now of a much higher quality
You must be new here
MyBB's staff motto is pretty much "
When it's ready"
(2012-08-14, 05:41 AM)Lo. Wrote: [ -> ] (2012-08-13, 11:38 AM)Dannymh Wrote: [ -> ]Don't stick to too much of a rigid release date or process. I have worked as part of a comercisl product release team. When we had share holders to answer too we released 1 update a quarter. Thankfully we were bought our by a new partner who reprivatised us. This made our release cycle less stringent and therefore Rach release is now of a much higher quality
You must be new here
MyBB's staff motto is pretty much "When it's ready"
I was thinking this too yesterday.
(2012-08-13, 04:25 AM)Dannymh Wrote: [ -> ]I cant say that would be time "wasted" I would say it would be time well spent
Wasted on inventing:
- Architecture
- Request Lifecycle
- I18n
- Routing
- Sessions
- Auth
Lets get straight to business, shall we? This thread was started because you fear your knowledge of PHP is no longer enabling you to work with industry standard code. You hope that if MyBB guys went with their own code, it would be more accessible than existing frameworks.
I have bad news for you - thats not how it works. If MyBB guys decided to build their own framework, they would have two options:
A) Write something dumb and simple for sake of those who are "modders" (guys who know what echo, if else and variables are and how to read input from user in MyBB or talk with DB) and lose arms race with other softwares as well as give signal to programmers that they are not serious platform to work with.
B) Write competitive platform and alienate "modders" anyway because they will use current practices and solutions to problems, very same used by other frameworks that guys complaining now dont understand. They maintain or improve their rep with programmers at price of lossing some of "modders".
I know that Pirata's posts come out harsh to you guys, but I understand his reasoning. He is losing patience to suggestions he perceives damaging to project. Times changes, stuff is done other way today, but some guys who dont understand it, who blalantly state they dont want to lear, who are not even programmers are questioning design decisions and complaining you have to be programmer to work with MyBB 2.0 code.
You guys want steam engine but this is petrol era. Adapt to current technology or get out the way for those who know how to work with it.
You have to accept it that IT is race. Who is not running forward is moving backwards.
(2012-08-14, 03:59 PM)Rafio Wrote: [ -> ] (2012-08-13, 04:25 AM)Dannymh Wrote: [ -> ]I cant say that would be time "wasted" I would say it would be time well spent
Wasted on inventing:
- Architecture
- Request Lifecycle
- I18n
- Routing
- Sessions
- Auth
Lets get straight to business, shall we? This thread was started because you fear your knowledge of PHP is no longer enabling you to work with industry standard code. You hope that if MyBB guys went with their own code, it would be more accessible than existing frameworks.
I have bad news for you - thats not how it works. If MyBB guys decided to build their own framework, they would have two options:
A) Write something dumb and simple for sake of those who are "modders" (guys who know what echo, if else and variables are and how to read input from user in MyBB or talk with DB) and lose arms race with other softwares as well as give signal to programmers that they are not serious platform to work with.
B) Write competitive platform and alienate "modders" anyway because they will use current practices and solutions to problems, very same used by other frameworks that guys complaining now dont understand. They maintain or improve their rep with programmers at price of lossing some of "modders".
I know that Pirata's posts come out harsh to you guys, but I understand his reasoning. He is losing patience to suggestions he perceives damaging to project. Times changes, stuff is done other way today, but some guys who dont understand it, who blalantly state they dont want to lear, who are not even programmers are questioning design decisions and complaining you have to be programmer to work with MyBB 2.0 code.
You guys want steam engine but this is petrol era. Adapt to current technology or get out the way for those who know how to work with it.
You have to accept it that IT is race. Who is not running forward is moving backwards.
Not at all. My point is that sticking to rigid MVC and poorly implemented MVC is no better than that not using a framework.
I have worked with several frameworks and found that the ones I have tried have not really assisted in rapidly building applications, though the caveat must be made that I have had no need to build a "ground up" application for a long time, or at least not outside of my day to day job anyway, we have our own homegrown framework, that as always are a complete mess in the commercial realm, and we are in the process of moving to Java, so we haven't bothered with looking at any options of rewriting or using another PHP framework.
My point and intention is not to say don't use an MVC framework and has nothing to do with my ability with PHP, which whilst not advanced by any stretch, is certainly not as you categorised as novice or beginner.
I think some of your comments are a bit rich and I can't blame you as my topic and my points were hijacked and later ignored, though are still very valid.
My point is to ensure a smart implementation, that doesn't enforce unnecessary work and ideas for simple tasks. My example has been the Joomla framework, whilst it can be worked around, oft-times to run simple tasks requires the creation of 4 or 5 files and a rigid folder structure, even though that task, may result in the output of one line of text.
Anyway, as previously stated, I think the discussion has run it's course, it seems that the community will always be divided on this point, and users will make their decisions when the changes are made and are evaluated. It's 2 years down the track, so it isn't a problem for me now, and once a beta or alpha is released I will do my best to be a part of that so that I can learn whatever system the developers come out with.
As mybb is 2 years + down the line, this thread is a good place to review your forum needs and make a decision on what direction you take in the future. It may very well help you decide whether you continue to use mybb or make the move now to a new forum software before all this craziness starts to happen.
(2012-08-16, 12:07 AM)Dannymh Wrote: [ -> ] (2012-08-14, 03:59 PM)Rafio Wrote: [ -> ] (2012-08-13, 04:25 AM)Dannymh Wrote: [ -> ]I cant say that would be time "wasted" I would say it would be time well spent
Wasted on inventing:
- Architecture
- Request Lifecycle
- I18n
- Routing
- Sessions
- Auth
Lets get straight to business, shall we? This thread was started because you fear your knowledge of PHP is no longer enabling you to work with industry standard code. You hope that if MyBB guys went with their own code, it would be more accessible than existing frameworks.
I have bad news for you - thats not how it works. If MyBB guys decided to build their own framework, they would have two options:
A) Write something dumb and simple for sake of those who are "modders" (guys who know what echo, if else and variables are and how to read input from user in MyBB or talk with DB) and lose arms race with other softwares as well as give signal to programmers that they are not serious platform to work with.
B) Write competitive platform and alienate "modders" anyway because they will use current practices and solutions to problems, very same used by other frameworks that guys complaining now dont understand. They maintain or improve their rep with programmers at price of lossing some of "modders".
I know that Pirata's posts come out harsh to you guys, but I understand his reasoning. He is losing patience to suggestions he perceives damaging to project. Times changes, stuff is done other way today, but some guys who dont understand it, who blalantly state they dont want to lear, who are not even programmers are questioning design decisions and complaining you have to be programmer to work with MyBB 2.0 code.
You guys want steam engine but this is petrol era. Adapt to current technology or get out the way for those who know how to work with it.
You have to accept it that IT is race. Who is not running forward is moving backwards.
Not at all. My point is that sticking to rigid MVC and poorly implemented MVC is no better than that not using a framework.
I have worked with several frameworks and found that the ones I have tried have not really assisted in rapidly building applications, though the caveat must be made that I have had no need to build a "ground up" application for a long time, or at least not outside of my day to day job anyway, we have our own homegrown framework, that as always are a complete mess in the commercial realm, and we are in the process of moving to Java, so we haven't bothered with looking at any options of rewriting or using another PHP framework.
My point and intention is not to say don't use an MVC framework and has nothing to do with my ability with PHP, which whilst not advanced by any stretch, is certainly not as you categorised as novice or beginner.
I think some of your comments are a bit rich and I can't blame you as my topic and my points were hijacked and later ignored, though are still very valid.
My point is to ensure a smart implementation, that doesn't enforce unnecessary work and ideas for simple tasks. My example has been the Joomla framework, whilst it can be worked around, oft-times to run simple tasks requires the creation of 4 or 5 files and a rigid folder structure, even though that task, may result in the output of one line of text.
Anyway, as previously stated, I think the discussion has run it's course, it seems that the community will always be divided on this point, and users will make their decisions when the changes are made and are evaluated. It's 2 years down the track, so it isn't a problem for me now, and once a beta or alpha is released I will do my best to be a part of that so that I can learn whatever system the developers come out with.
I can assure you we'll do our best to make it as easy as possible for developers to create plugins
(2012-08-16, 05:44 PM)Pirata Nervo Wrote: [ -> ]I can assure you we'll do our best to make it as easy as possible for developers to create plugins
I've seen how many vulnerabilities were caused by poorly coded plugins. Don't make it too easy. A harder plugin development will keep away many bad developers.
