Quote:I've never done that. Would it make my browsing experience more efficient or better in some way than how I access it now?
A screen reader is a device that blind people use to browse the internet, so no, it wouldn't. In fact, most websites are so terribly constructed that it's a nightmare to browse them without being able to take visual cues. HTML is not a visual language---that's CSS's job. HTML is a structural language that is meant to organize content. Not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to
see the site they're browsing. This may not seem like a big issue, but there are more blind people using the web than you think.
When you use tables for a layout, you're basically saying that every single solitary element of the site you're designing is, in fact, tabular data. This is laughably incorrect, and ignorant to boot. It was fine back when CSS didn't have any suitable replacement for tables. Nowadays, we have inline-blocks, and pretty soon we'll be able to start using flexbox. CSS hacks and complicated grid systems will be a thing of the past.
But there's really no reason to be using tables for anything other than...tables. Hell, nowadays you can even use the "display: table", "display: table-row", and "display: table-cell" properties to emulate tables PERFECTLY on semantic HTML. There is no excuse.
Quote:Ooo...fancy words. What's responsive design? I want to hear more.
Responsive design is the art of crafting a website in a way that it will be viewable across all devices, regardless of their screen size. It does away with fixed-width layouts and other lazy design techniques that have plagued the web for years. "Mobile versions" of sites are no longer required in 2013.
Responsive design uses CSS3 media queries to change certain styles after a certain window size is reached (there are also other things you can do with it, such as detecting the DPI of a screen and adjusting icon sizes accordingly)
Here is a list of websites that use responsive design techniques. The first one is my own personal site. All of these sites will "respond" to a change in window size as long as they're viewed in a modern browser (I'm assuming you don't still use IE8
)
http://keithpickering.net/
http://css-tricks.com/
http://microsoft.com/
And of course, there are so many more where this came from. Just google "responsive design" and you'll see some of the amazing things people have done. CSS3 isn't just about box shadows and rounded corners---it's about rethinking the way that we make websites.
Quote:Curious about how many forums are a success on mobile phones with responsive designs. Terms like fluid, responsive, and flexible are used to describe nifty new design elements but forums are high-content web pages that don't really scale down to a mobile very well. A single showthread page can have hundreds of links.
It's true that forums have a lot of content, but it's not that hard to show all that content in a more efficient way. Have you seen the goMobile theme? That's a perfect example of how this should be done, except there's no need for a separate theme if you're using responsive design.
And forums aren't successful on mobile phones
because of their archaic code; they can be successful on mobile phones
in spite of it.
Quote:How does strong tags fit into a tableless design? MyBB already does use them.
Strong tags are just one example of incorrect HTML usage.
Strong tags themselves aren't incorrect or unsemantic, but the way myBB uses them
is. MyBB uses strong tags wherever it wants text to appear bold, when in reality, a strong tag is only supposed to be used to set certain elements apart. This takes us right back to the screen reader issue---screen readers take advantage of strong tags to tell them which parts of the page are most important. When someone browses a MyBB site on a screen reader, they're likely bombarded with "important" text such as "Current time", "get more", and of course the ever-popular "Post #15". Hardly any of the strong tags in myBB actually indicate important content, and it's painfully obvious that they used to be <b> tags before being switched out (a lot of people seem to think they're interchangeable, when in fact, the <b> tag is a remnant from when nobody gave a damn about their HTML making any sense). I'm not trying to insult the myBB developers, because I know this HTML is very old and that it's being rewritten, but if I were them, I would've rewritten it a few years ago.
Quote:And tableless is not really that much more SEO friendly.
You wanna bet?
And it's not just about the whole tableless thing---myBB, in general, uses presentational HTML almost everywhere. Strong tags for unimportant content, deprecated "width" and "align" attributes, br tags to add extra margins---this is why they're rewriting the whole thing in 2.0. It's not just because they're bored.
Search engine crawlers are similar to screen readers, and if sites are poorly coded, they can have a hard time determining if the site is relevant at all. With an over-abundance of strong tags, Google might even think a site is trying to unfairly compete for your attention.
Quote:Oh really? If you want my real view on this I'll dish it out. I think what's happening is guys like you are continuing to increase the complexity required to make, design, and implement a web site for the average joe. Most forums get started by the little guy. I think we're seeing a lot less Mom & Pop websites nowadays. Most now seem to rely on a Facebook fan page or use other social media instead of making an attempt at being a webmaster. And who can blame them? PHP which was the noobs friendliest coding language is now just filled with complex frameworks, designers all want fancy CSS frameworks, and sites have to be mobile ready to boot.
I think it's over for the small webmaster. If you want your content on the web you either use someone else's social services or you get a college degree in computer science.
It's really not that complex to use HTML and CSS correctly. If we could get rid of all the poor and outdated resources on the web that tell people using tables for layouts is a good idea, nobody would have a problem.
"Guys like me" are just trying to make the web usable for everybody. I think the reason we're seeing fewer Mom and Pop websites is that not everyone feels like they NEED a website anymore. Nowadays we have Facebook and Tumblr, both of which offer a lot of customization tools. A lot of small business owners might see this as enough. As a web developer, I tend to disagree because I want a paycheck, but it's just a fact. Social media offers a lot of things that a dedicated website doesn't: 1) It's free to set up, 2) it provides instant exposure to millions of users, and 3) it allows people to interact with their customers extremely easily. Every business needs to be on Facebook these days, whether you find that agreeable or not.
PHP isn't really required for an extremely simple website, and for things like myBB, you don't have to know any PHP whatsoever to customize a theme.
I'm always going to recommend that people code their own websites (or hire someone to do it) rather than using a fancy CSS framework. Most of them are bloated and offer waaay too much than is needed for the average web developer.
And of course sites have to be mobile-ready---desktops are quickly vanishing. Trust me, I'm going to keep building my own computers til the day I die, but for the average person, a smartphone or tablet is enough. It's your guys' choice if you want to avoid making sites mobile-ready, but don't be surprised when your traffic drops significantly.
Lastly, I don't have a college degree in computer science, nor have I taken a single web design class. Nearly everything I know is from reading a few web design blogs. If I can do it, anyone can.
