You guys have been talking about MyBB 2.0 for years, it's never gonna happen. Just improve MyBB 1.x while it still has a chance to be saved.
(2017-10-22, 09:03 AM)rob006 Wrote: [ -> ]I suggest to take look at flarum: https://github.com/flarum/core. Rather than rewriting the forum from scratch, it may be better to join an existing project and have at least one modern PHP-based forum engine instead of multiple "forever-beta" projects.
We'd be better off working on Discourse, to be honest. Discourse is what Flarum's cloning to begin with and it has a far more secure future and is even used by banks. I never got the big deal with Flarum, yes it's PHP, but in 2017, there are plenty of easy ways to deploy software on VPS' and some shared hosts let you do this sort of stuff.
I'd assume that if the Flarum model was so appealing, we wouldn't all still be here. And who cares about Github stars, if MyBB shamelessly begged people to star the repo, I'm sure it'd have a lot more.
@Azah Discource is heavy as hell when you compare it to most of PHP engines, so it is overkill for small boards. It is much harder to install and maintenance in most of the cases, and is completely useless if you're looking PHP forum that can be integrate with existing PHP software.
And good look with contribution do Discource...
This discussion is best done off this topic, but I don't think any forum software can truly "integrate" with other PHP software anyway, so the point is a little moot. You just slap down a software here and a software there and believe me when I say that I have tried to get this stuff to work with Wordpress, that was a nightmare and a half.
On the contrary, I believe that Discourse is only good *for* small boards
These may be small boards for *big sites*, but still small ones, as I genuinely don't believe Discourse can scale.
Edit:
At the end of the day, if I have a $5/month budget, I can run Discourse or MyBB, or presumably, Flarum perfectly fine.
The option I'd go for in this case, is the best one, not a PHP one or one which is extremely simple to setup, and that option despite the odds would have to be MyBB as it's the most customisable and powerful one.
And setting up Discourse, if I recall, is just a matter of slapping down a docker container. It has a one-click updater.
As for contributing? I'd just learn Ruby. I know over five programming languages, another won't make a difference, but I'll pass on that.
(2017-10-23, 07:17 AM)Azah Wrote: [ -> ]This discussion is best done off this topic, but I don't think any forum software can truly "integrate" with other PHP software anyway, so the point is a little moot. You just slap down a software here and a software there and believe me when I say that I have tried to get this stuff to work with Wordpress, that was a nightmare and a half.
I'm not talking about "install WP plugin and it works", but I have custom software and direct access to Flarum components simplifies a lot. I can use user component to sync sessions or AR and posts parsers to get posts and display them as comments for news. In Discource I have to use SSO and limited embed mode.
Anyway, you pushed this discussion into ridiculous direction. I proposed to join or fork similar and more mature engine also based on PHP, Laravel and RDBS instead of starting from zero. You proposed Discource based on completely different technology stack (and probably does not need any support from MyBB developers), because its frontend looks similar to Flarum...
Shrug, you're the one who hopped into a serious discussion about MyBB's Future trying to shill Flarum, did you expect everyone to say, yaaayyy, Flarum!! We'll all abandon MyBB for a Discourse Clone, that's totally the way to go!
I pointed out Discourse, as if everyone subscribed to Atwood's ideology, then people would be better off trying to improve Discourse than working on what is it? The fifth Discourse me too to pop up in the last year or two? And no one knows when it'll come out, just like the now slightly infamous MyBB 2.0
And Flarum is not a mature engine. It's been in alpha for three years. It's so unready that the dev doesn't even think it's ready for v0.1.0 which is as far as you can get from a v1. If Flarum is the way for you, then power to you, but the spiel certainly isn't convincing for me, not once have I seen an argument which puts Flarum above and beyond it's competition, asides from the "it's modern and it's PHP, thus it's good even if it isn't."
If v0.1.0 is so far away, then when will a competitive build come out? 2022? Will Flarum still exist by then? There are a lot of factors to consider with a long term project. Tobias might burn out. Or he might get a really busy job with no time to devote to Flarum. Or perhaps, he'll decide that he doesn't want to work on it any-more, it's not like it's his job. All of a sudden, development dies just like that.
Can you even theme Flarum or is it like the others where every forum looks the same? This is taken for granted at MyBB, but many of these alt projects have countless forums which look the same. The same old theme, perhaps with minor alterations.
If you really want to discuss Flarum, I'd once again suggest taking it elsewhere.
(2017-10-23, 01:04 AM)Lunorian Wrote: [ -> ]You guys have been talking about MyBB 2.0 for years, it's never gonna happen. Just improve MyBB 1.x while it still has a chance to be saved.
There are more technical challenges updating 1.x forever than there are developing 2.0 using a modern framework which solves many of the problems which exist in the 1.x codebase. Developing a forum using Laravel isn't a huge technical challenge. Forums are relatively simple. The issues which exists regardless of whether the team focuses on 1.x or 2.0 is time and contributors. There are many internal issues which exist including organization and direction. Saying "just do this" doesn't solve any of the legitimate issues which need to be addressed.
If there had been enough people contributing to MyBB 2.0 who had enough time to dedicate, it would be released already. If suddenly there are enough people with enough free time to revamp a legacy codebase and release a new version in a reasonable amount of time to make yet another "transitional" release worth it, there should be no issue developing 2.0 and pushing that out.
1.x has served its purpose. Keeping it alive with no clear vision of what MyBB will be is dangerous for the project.
(2017-10-24, 10:46 AM)Azah Wrote: [ -> ]Shrug, you're the one who hopped into a serious discussion about MyBB's Future trying to shill Flarum, did you expect everyone to say, yaaayyy, Flarum!! We'll all abandon MyBB for a Discourse Clone, that's totally the way to go!
Sorry, didn't know that MyBB has "Not invented here" syndrome. Forget it then...
Anyway, good luck with it. MyBB team clearly does not have enough man power to build new 2.0, and step-by-step upgrade of 1.x line will took forever (phpBB chose this path and after 4 years it is still piece of legacy c...).
(2017-10-24, 02:53 PM)Nathan Malcolm Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-10-23, 01:04 AM)Lunorian Wrote: [ -> ]You guys have been talking about MyBB 2.0 for years, it's never gonna happen. Just improve MyBB 1.x while it still has a chance to be saved.
There are more technical challenges updating 1.x forever than there are developing 2.0 using a modern framework which solves many of the problems which exist in the 1.x codebase. Developing a forum using Laravel isn't a huge technical challenge. Forums are relatively simple. The issues which exists regardless of whether the team focuses on 1.x or 2.0 is time and contributors. There are many internal issues which exist including organization and direction. Saying "just do this" doesn't solve any of the legitimate issues which need to be addressed.
Great points. It isn't just a matter of coding 2.x (As you mentioned, a forum on Laravel is not extremely difficult). It's also things like reaching feature parity, onboarding new developers, rebuilding 3rd party services (By informing the current 3rd party developers properly). A rewrite isn't just a technical challenge, it's a marketing/organizational challenge as well.
Developers need a sense of accomplishment, when you work on something after you've left your job for the day, then hop on the forum to be told "You are taking way too long dude", you lose all motivation. MyBB 2 will suffer that problem for months or years, until some alpha is released. Only then will they be greeted with "Oh man, that's awesome!".
However, in slowly reworking 1.x, they will be able to get this positive feedback regularly, because people are familiar with the 1.x series and use it. They will know when something awesome has happened and gladly let the developers know. In my mind this is why a 1.x will be successful, and a 2.x will not happen unless 1.x is much closer in technology.
(2017-10-24, 02:53 PM)Nathan Malcolm Wrote: [ -> ]If there had been enough people contributing to MyBB 2.0 who had enough time to dedicate, it would be released already. If suddenly there are enough people with enough free time to revamp a legacy codebase and release a new version in a reasonable amount of time to make yet another "transitional" release worth it, there should be no issue developing 2.0 and pushing that out.
1.x has served its purpose. Keeping it alive with no clear vision of what MyBB will be is dangerous for the project.
1.x as it exists has long served it's purpose. Luckily the whole team knows what MyBB truly is at it's core, dead simple and extendable. Oh, and PHP based.
(2017-10-24, 07:06 PM)Eric J. Wrote: [ -> ]Developers need a sense of accomplishment, when you work on something after you've left your job for the day, then hop on the forum to be told "You are taking way too long dude", you lose all motivation.
[...]
However, in slowly reworking 1.x, they will be able to get this positive feedback regularly, because people are familiar with the 1.x series and use it. They will know when something awesome has happened and gladly let the developers know.
Some contributors may be motivated by end-users' feedback - others by high quality or other factors. There would be no plans to take advantage of a framework or to introduce internal changes if user satisfaction was the leading reason of development.