Generally I wholeheartedly agree with every single letter in post #70. Well done pointing all these out.
As for communication:: its very much needed, but - as I said somewhere else - communication regarding development should take place outside hidden forum only.
The only discussion happening within a hidden forum as of the current time is as follows:
- Staff contact details - obviously this should be private - not everybody needs to know private contact details.
- Staff status updates (going on vacation, family issues, ill health, etc.).
- Vulnerability reports and patches - we cannot discuss vulnerabilities publicly before there is a released public patch for said vulnerability - that should be obvious to anybody with half a brain cell.
There is currently no hidden discussion regarding development of MyBB as a project.
(2017-11-04, 01:17 PM)marcgo15 Wrote: [ -> ]Also on the subject of plugins breaking with each release such as 2.2, 2.4 I personally don't care if that means we see the rewrite completed. If there is a roadmap plugin makers will already know this ahead of time.
Absolutely NOT! I have a highly customized theme and several plugins (admittedly I never publicly release any of my customizations). I do not want compatibility breaking releases every 4-6 months. Everything will change with the rewrite - template engine, hook system, themes, authentication, themes. With such disparities, it will become nigh impossible to write forward-looking plugins (eg. support current version plus not break in the next release).
An example of change that didn't break compatibility was separating activate from install and deactivate from uninstall in the plugin system; newer plugins could take advantage of the distinction while older plugins didn't break.
I've been using MyBB since 1.0 Gold days, too. I love this forum software and want to see it thrive. If the updates happen too much piecemeal, I might be forced to stick on 1.8 until enough changes happen to make it worth my time to rework my customizations.
(2017-11-06, 05:53 PM)laie_techie Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-11-04, 01:17 PM)marcgo15 Wrote: [ -> ]Also on the subject of plugins breaking with each release such as 2.2, 2.4 I personally don't care if that means we see the rewrite completed. If there is a roadmap plugin makers will already know this ahead of time.
Absolutely NOT! I have a highly customized theme and several plugins (admittedly I never publicly release any of my customizations). I do not want compatibility breaking releases every 4-6 months. Everything will change with the rewrite - template engine, hook system, themes, authentication, themes. With such disparities, it will become nigh impossible to write forward-looking plugins (eg. support current version plus not break in the next release).
An example of change that didn't break compatibility was separating activate from install and deactivate from uninstall in the plugin system; newer plugins could take advantage of the distinction while older plugins didn't break.
I've been using MyBB since 1.0 Gold days, too. I love this forum software and want to see it thrive. If the updates happen too much piecemeal, I might be forced to stick on 1.8 until enough changes happen to make it worth my time to rework my customizations.
I can understand your point of view in the case of a forum that's super modified. It's really not uncommon for larger forums to go a long time on an older version because of the headaches of having to have everything redone, so I can see your point in not rushing to upgrade. I've owned a few that had custom plugins and it took time before I was able to upgrade to a new version.
I think for the average forum that has a handful of non-custom plugins it wouldn't be a problem to see rewrites in such a manner.
(2017-11-06, 05:53 PM)laie_techie Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-11-04, 01:17 PM)marcgo15 Wrote: [ -> ]Also on the subject of plugins breaking with each release such as 2.2, 2.4 I personally don't care if that means we see the rewrite completed. If there is a roadmap plugin makers will already know this ahead of time.
Absolutely NOT! I have a highly customized theme and several plugins (admittedly I never publicly release any of my customizations). I do not want compatibility breaking releases every 4-6 months. Everything will change with the rewrite - template engine, hook system, themes, authentication, themes. With such disparities, it will become nigh impossible to write forward-looking plugins (eg. support current version plus not break in the next release).
An example of change that didn't break compatibility was separating activate from install and deactivate from uninstall in the plugin system; newer plugins could take advantage of the distinction while older plugins didn't break.
I've been using MyBB since 1.0 Gold days, too. I love this forum software and want to see it thrive. If the updates happen too much piecemeal, I might be forced to stick on 1.8 until enough changes happen to make it worth my time to rework my customizations.
While I agree with you that it's important to maintain compatibility where it makes sense, 2.0 (Which was to be our next major release before 1.10) was going to break all compatibility. The fact that we're refocusing to 1.10 shouldn't change the fact that some fundamental changes have to happen to keep MyBB relevant. We can not hold back progress for the few (Let's say 200) boards that have extensive customization, while we lose new users every day because we spend so much time on backwards compatibility. We cannot even make CSS or JS edits to MyBB as a whole currently because of this reason.
If you have very extensive modifications, then it makes perfect sense that you would have to stay on 1.8 until it was strategically correct to move to 1.10.
#75:: Dont get it:: why you cannot even make CSS and/or JS edits? Because of what?
(2017-11-08, 08:24 AM)devs Wrote: [ -> ]#75:: Dont get it:: why you cannot even make CSS and/or JS edits? Because of what?
Because most themes inherit from the MyBB master theme, which means changing CSS will change those themes as well. Also users are able to make use of Javascript in their themes, and changing things like selectors in the Javascript means adding/changing classes in the master theme that would again lead to breaking themes.
I can only imagine that the PHP is full of the same issue.
The fix is providing an intuitive interface and upgrade process, at least for theme backward compatibility. But things have to break for that to happen.
Quote:Current 1.x series: New theme system with Twig templates
And
Quote:Current 1.x series: UX feature improvements*
Those should be the same vote. An improved UX might include a different template system to allow for a responsive design with is the same as the user interface. If you added "mobile responsive theme" to any of these selections I think they get a higher vote percentage. The word "responsive" is in this thread a dozen times by a dozen members.
Apologies I don't have time to read the 8 pages of this thread at the moment.
My vote its for [ Current 1.x series: New theme system with Twig templates ]
Hope in the next year mybb 1.8.x with theme responsive development for the team official MyBB.
Thanks for the software 1.8.x its amazing.
(2017-11-04, 01:17 PM)marcgo15 Wrote: [ -> ]Long time MyBB user here, I've been using the software since before it was even a stable 1.0. I remember when MyBB was seen as the vBulletin of the free forum world (and in ways it still is) but it's age is really showing as the devs pointed out so it needs a major overhaul. I really want to see some changes happen with MyBB in 2018. Next year needs to be about seeing some kind of change here.
I agree a full rewrite is needed but the current way isn't working. I feel we should move in a direction of upgrading 1.8 over time to become what 2.0 was originally going to be over a series of releases. I don't think the community can last waiting another year or more on waiting for full rewrite to get released without seeing the progress being made. We've been talking about 2.0 since 1.6 was released. So I support upgrading/rewriting sections over time. I think this way more progress can be made.
Drop the 1.x name altogether. 1.x has been around 15 years now, it's time to move on to better things but over a period of time.
I have one request from the dev team. Please keep the communication open, this was a great step forward in the right direction. I can tell you all have the same end goal in mind, a full rewrite. Lets see this team complete this task and move MyBB to the top spot again. I know you guys can do it 
!
I do agree with this statement...
For now the MyBB Team needs to work on improving the current 1.8.xx series in preparation for 2.0.
Forget that 1.10 idea... what's the point of it?
I mean... you can easily call it 1.8.20. It's just a versioning thing. That's all...
What you're planning for 1.10 or whatever... put it into a later iteration of the 1.8.xx series. (i.e. 1.8.20)
Don't be mucking around wasting time on versioning. That's a minor thing.
You're not really doing a complete overhaul of the code.
Dang it... you can easily version the 1.8.xx series all the way up to 1.8.99 if the need arises.
Hopefully, it won't get that high, but my point is... there's plenty of room to update/upgrade the 1.8.xx series that going to 1.10 series is pointless.
EDIT:
Directly quoting Paradigm:
- Composer
- File-based template(Preferably twig templating)
- Routing(With Controllers?)
- An ORM(Eloquent/Doctrine)
- If not an ORM then a database class that utilizes PDO
- Make the minimum PHP version requirement PHP7.0
- Since we're moving towards more frontend driven development may be more of an API approach?
All or any of them can be easily implemented into the 1.8.xx series of updates/upgrades. No need to jump into 1.10 series for these kinds of features.
This EDIT is to clarify why I am against jumping to the 1.10 series.