2013-09-04, 09:50 PM
(2013-09-04, 08:27 PM)brad-t Wrote: [ -> ]MyBB 1.8 has a lot of features that people have wanted for years. With its current feature list, MyBB 1.8 is already outdated and it hasn't even come out yet.
Dare I say, as is MyBB 2?
2013-09-04, 09:50 PM
2013-09-04, 10:28 PM
It's a tough position for MyBB to be in and I understand many of the points made here. As it has been said in the past and may be seen as the same ol' excuse, but its a free open source project so for us developers, it is a hobby that we contribute to when we have the time.
I for one have very little time any more and stepped back a bit. I have other paying work that takes precedence over supporting MyBB, the same as many of the other staff.
However, we are open to pull requests and we have merged many of them from a variety of people. If you want something added, contribute. I know most of you can not code (or are not confortable doing it) and many of you have contributed in other ways like themes, plugins, tutorials, answering support threads, etc. but its still only a few official developers that are doing the majority of the work.
1.8 is going to add features and bug fixes while keeping the core product as compatible with existing themes and plugins as possible. Hence the idea that it is already outdated but its "outdated", "dated" perhaps,but not outdated.
It's one or the other, neither will make everyone happy. We can skip 1.8 and get started on 2.0 full time but that would break everything everywhere all at once or roll out 1.8 as we can get to it while adding the things you want in the mean time.
I for one have very little time any more and stepped back a bit. I have other paying work that takes precedence over supporting MyBB, the same as many of the other staff.
However, we are open to pull requests and we have merged many of them from a variety of people. If you want something added, contribute. I know most of you can not code (or are not confortable doing it) and many of you have contributed in other ways like themes, plugins, tutorials, answering support threads, etc. but its still only a few official developers that are doing the majority of the work.
1.8 is going to add features and bug fixes while keeping the core product as compatible with existing themes and plugins as possible. Hence the idea that it is already outdated but its "outdated", "dated" perhaps,but not outdated.
It's one or the other, neither will make everyone happy. We can skip 1.8 and get started on 2.0 full time but that would break everything everywhere all at once or roll out 1.8 as we can get to it while adding the things you want in the mean time.
2013-09-04, 10:41 PM
I think one of the problems is that MyBB needs a shift in the way releases are handled, more of the current model of constant change rather than big releases. Like envira said, the web changes quickly so you need an architecture that supports rapid development. I don't know if they're planning this for 2.0 but even still, the current form of MyBB would have to be changed significantly to support this.
We're at an interesting time with a big change to the software in the works but nothing to tide us over while it's in development. It was my impression that 1.8 was supposed to serve as this in-between but it seems it's taking much longer than expected.
This just reminds me of how SMF was when SMF 2 was in development. Granted the situation is different (I'm pretty sure we don't have a heated debate between team members) but the basic situation of a long overdue update I think still holds.
We're at an interesting time with a big change to the software in the works but nothing to tide us over while it's in development. It was my impression that 1.8 was supposed to serve as this in-between but it seems it's taking much longer than expected.
This just reminds me of how SMF was when SMF 2 was in development. Granted the situation is different (I'm pretty sure we don't have a heated debate between team members) but the basic situation of a long overdue update I think still holds.
2013-09-04, 11:21 PM
I think it's important to note that even when we lament the progress of the software, I don't think any of us holds individuals on the team accountable. We know it's a free, open source project. At the same time, a lot of software is free and open source. That has never stopped software from evolving. What is it about MyBB that is failing to attract committed developers, in bigger numbers?
The bigger issue is that the team doesn't seem to understand what they should be doing, versus what they want to do. If you polled the community here, I'm sure you'd find that people would rather see new features like drag & drop attachments, simple registration on every page, threaded messaging, better spam protection, etc. built into the current series instead of waiting for 2.0 in ... 2016? 2017?
I can only assume that the hope is that 2.0 will be a compelling enough product to decimate the competition, but at some point, you have to actually release something. There is no chance that MyBB can make it to 2.0 within the next five years with its current dying momentum and userbase. No chance.
MyBB's failures aren't only in development but due to its own stubbornness to do things like improve the site itself, improve the forum through the use of theming or plugins, nurture existing projects and developers, and more. Those are ones that I think the organization can be fairly held accountable for, as they have consistently refused suggestions and help in these areas.
The bigger issue is that the team doesn't seem to understand what they should be doing, versus what they want to do. If you polled the community here, I'm sure you'd find that people would rather see new features like drag & drop attachments, simple registration on every page, threaded messaging, better spam protection, etc. built into the current series instead of waiting for 2.0 in ... 2016? 2017?
I can only assume that the hope is that 2.0 will be a compelling enough product to decimate the competition, but at some point, you have to actually release something. There is no chance that MyBB can make it to 2.0 within the next five years with its current dying momentum and userbase. No chance.
MyBB's failures aren't only in development but due to its own stubbornness to do things like improve the site itself, improve the forum through the use of theming or plugins, nurture existing projects and developers, and more. Those are ones that I think the organization can be fairly held accountable for, as they have consistently refused suggestions and help in these areas.
2013-09-05, 04:15 AM
Quote:I think one of the problems is that MyBB needs a shift in the way releases are handled, more of the current model of constant change rather than big releases.
I agree. There are bugs I could fix myself and then just have the team approve changes. The way things work now is cumbersome.
Quote:The bigger issue is that the team doesn't seem to understand what they should be doing, versus what they want to do. If you polled the community here, I'm sure you'd find that people would rather see new features like drag & drop attachments, simple registration on every page, threaded messaging, better spam protection, etc. built into the current series instead of waiting for 2.0 in ... 2016? 2017?
Agreed. I know the focus on 2.0 is a rewrite using a framework because a framework will make development easier and bring the project up to date with standards. At least that's the argument.
2013-09-05, 04:21 AM
Quote:I agree. There are bugs I could fix myself and then just have the team approve changes. The way things work now is cumbersome.
Create a new pull request on Github? MyBB 1.8 is our main priority but we're happy to accept bug fixes from the community.
2013-09-05, 05:26 AM
(2013-09-05, 04:21 AM)Nathan Malcolm Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:I agree. There are bugs I could fix myself and then just have the team approve changes. The way things work now is cumbersome.
Create a new pull request on Github? MyBB 1.8 is our main priority but we're happy to accept bug fixes from the community.
I guess it's time I actually use my Github account.
2013-09-05, 07:59 AM
Brad makes a lot of excellent points, as usual.
I do find it a bit stubborn that the MyBB team has decided that using plugins on the forum is a no-no, despite the fact that plugins are a core feature of MyBB. Many successful open source projects utilize their software to the fullest. The fact that members ask about certain features that aren't available and only in plugins should honestly be a non-issue. Just shoot them a link to the plugin and that's it. The plugin feature is possibly the best feature of MyBB, but it's not used on the actual MyBB site itself, aside from about two plugins.
The project site should not be used as a demo. Use a demo site as a demo.
I know this is the second time I've brought it up, and it's been mentioned that their decision has already been made, but it's honestly a bad decision. Take your forum and showcase it as something that MyBB can do out of the box (and yes, plugins are included in this box).
I do find it a bit stubborn that the MyBB team has decided that using plugins on the forum is a no-no, despite the fact that plugins are a core feature of MyBB. Many successful open source projects utilize their software to the fullest. The fact that members ask about certain features that aren't available and only in plugins should honestly be a non-issue. Just shoot them a link to the plugin and that's it. The plugin feature is possibly the best feature of MyBB, but it's not used on the actual MyBB site itself, aside from about two plugins.
The project site should not be used as a demo. Use a demo site as a demo.
I know this is the second time I've brought it up, and it's been mentioned that their decision has already been made, but it's honestly a bad decision. Take your forum and showcase it as something that MyBB can do out of the box (and yes, plugins are included in this box).
2013-09-05, 08:07 AM
Quote:I do find it a bit stubborn that the MyBB team has decided that using plugins on the forum is a no-no, despite the fact that plugins are a core feature of MyBB.
We do use plugins (I built a few of them myself), we just don't want to add too many additional frontend features via plugins which may give the wrong impression of what MyBB offers.
2013-09-05, 08:23 AM
Maybe mybb should make the paid version of mybb...