(2017-09-15, 12:02 PM)Shade Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 07:13 AM)devs Wrote: [ -> ]As of tests :: no you don't need them; not in the current form. Instead, just create another php files with tests and add function that will fire them up at install start (or at any other phase; install phase'd be most relevant imho).....
So you're suggesting to perform unit tests? The 1.8 codebase is not suitable to perform them (if I recall correctly, Euan tried to set some up but didn't end successfully). And even if we could do unit tests (which will be easier with 2.0), many things would still need manual user interaction. Besides, the "install phase" is not the most relevant one; most bug fixes – if any – do not affect the installation process but common board functionalities.
1.8's codebase is very messy and has been repaired over the years. It will probably never become completely clean. However he has a good point, adding an echo statement (just example) doesn't need extensive testing.
(2017-09-15, 12:02 PM)Shade Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 07:13 AM)devs Wrote: [ -> ]As of tests :: no you don't need them; not in the current form. Instead, just create another php files with tests and add function that will fire them up at install start (or at any other phase; install phase'd be most relevant imho).....
So you're suggesting to perform unit tests? The 1.8 codebase is not suitable to perform them (if I recall correctly, Euan tried to set some up but didn't end successfully). And even if we could do unit tests (which will be easier with 2.0), many things would still need manual user interaction. Besides, the "install phase" is not the most relevant one; most bug fixes – if any – do not affect the installation process but common board functionalities.
Yes, Im suggesting to include unit tests, they have been created for a reason and this reason makes them fit here perfectly. The fact that Euan tried and didnt manage to do it, speaks clearly that he shouldnt be a developer. Implementing unit tests is not hard at all.....
(2017-09-15, 12:07 PM)Lunorian Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 12:02 PM)Shade Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 07:13 AM)devs Wrote: [ -> ]As of tests :: no you don't need them; not in the current form. Instead, just create another php files with tests and add function that will fire them up at install start (or at any other phase; install phase'd be most relevant imho).....
So you're suggesting to perform unit tests? The 1.8 codebase is not suitable to perform them (if I recall correctly, Euan tried to set some up but didn't end successfully). And even if we could do unit tests (which will be easier with 2.0), many things would still need manual user interaction. Besides, the "install phase" is not the most relevant one; most bug fixes – if any – do not affect the installation process but common board functionalities.
1.8's codebase is very messy and has been repaired over the years. It will probably never become completely clean. However he has a good point, adding an echo statement (just example) doesn't need extensive testing.
Thanks for understanding. I only wish devs would uinderstand me same way as you do it.
(2017-09-15, 12:23 PM)devs Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 12:02 PM)Shade Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 07:13 AM)devs Wrote: [ -> ]As of tests :: no you don't need them; not in the current form. Instead, just create another php files with tests and add function that will fire them up at install start (or at any other phase; install phase'd be most relevant imho).....
So you're suggesting to perform unit tests? The 1.8 codebase is not suitable to perform them (if I recall correctly, Euan tried to set some up but didn't end successfully). And even if we could do unit tests (which will be easier with 2.0), many things would still need manual user interaction. Besides, the "install phase" is not the most relevant one; most bug fixes – if any – do not affect the installation process but common board functionalities.
Yes, Im suggesting to include unit tests, they have been created for a reason and this reason makes them fit here perfectly. The fact that Euan tried and didnt manage to do it, speaks clearly that he shouldnt be a developer. Implementing unit tests is not hard at all.....
(2017-09-15, 12:07 PM)Lunorian Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 12:02 PM)Shade Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 07:13 AM)devs Wrote: [ -> ]As of tests :: no you don't need them; not in the current form. Instead, just create another php files with tests and add function that will fire them up at install start (or at any other phase; install phase'd be most relevant imho).....
So you're suggesting to perform unit tests? The 1.8 codebase is not suitable to perform them (if I recall correctly, Euan tried to set some up but didn't end successfully). And even if we could do unit tests (which will be easier with 2.0), many things would still need manual user interaction. Besides, the "install phase" is not the most relevant one; most bug fixes – if any – do not affect the installation process but common board functionalities.
1.8's codebase is very messy and has been repaired over the years. It will probably never become completely clean. However he has a good point, adding an echo statement (just example) doesn't need extensive testing.
Thanks for understanding. I only wish devs would uinderstand me same way as you do it.
If you can write unit tests to cover 1.8, there's nobody stopping you. I've yet to see a single pull request to improve the pain points from half of the people constantly complaining. Seeing only negativity constantly is a surefire way to drive people away from the project.
(2017-09-15, 01:38 PM)Euan T Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 12:23 PM)devs Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 12:02 PM)Shade Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 07:13 AM)devs Wrote: [ -> ]As of tests :: no you don't need them; not in the current form. Instead, just create another php files with tests and add function that will fire them up at install start (or at any other phase; install phase'd be most relevant imho).....
So you're suggesting to perform unit tests? The 1.8 codebase is not suitable to perform them (if I recall correctly, Euan tried to set some up but didn't end successfully). And even if we could do unit tests (which will be easier with 2.0), many things would still need manual user interaction. Besides, the "install phase" is not the most relevant one; most bug fixes – if any – do not affect the installation process but common board functionalities.
Yes, Im suggesting to include unit tests, they have been created for a reason and this reason makes them fit here perfectly. The fact that Euan tried and didnt manage to do it, speaks clearly that he shouldnt be a developer. Implementing unit tests is not hard at all.....
(2017-09-15, 12:07 PM)Lunorian Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 12:02 PM)Shade Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 07:13 AM)devs Wrote: [ -> ]As of tests :: no you don't need them; not in the current form. Instead, just create another php files with tests and add function that will fire them up at install start (or at any other phase; install phase'd be most relevant imho).....
So you're suggesting to perform unit tests? The 1.8 codebase is not suitable to perform them (if I recall correctly, Euan tried to set some up but didn't end successfully). And even if we could do unit tests (which will be easier with 2.0), many things would still need manual user interaction. Besides, the "install phase" is not the most relevant one; most bug fixes – if any – do not affect the installation process but common board functionalities.
1.8's codebase is very messy and has been repaired over the years. It will probably never become completely clean. However he has a good point, adding an echo statement (just example) doesn't need extensive testing.
Thanks for understanding. I only wish devs would uinderstand me same way as you do it.
If you can write unit tests to cover 1.8, there's nobody stopping you. I've yet to see a single pull request to improve the pain points from half of the people constantly complaining. Seeing only negativity constantly is a surefire way to drive people away from the project.
WRONG.
This negativity is here for a reason. Reason being your way of administering (in wide sense) your (=MyBB) codebase on GitHub. People (not only me) dont like this way and we are voicing our dislike. Nothing bad.
Try to improve it (by listeniung to what we have to say - even if its negative) and just change accordingly. Then you would see what is really negative and whats only seem to be negative.
I assure you that what drives people away from the project is
your (as well as other devs) attitude. Learn to listen to people and whose who would be driven away will become minority. Thats what you want right?
(2017-09-15, 03:12 PM)devs Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 01:38 PM)Euan T Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 12:23 PM)devs Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 12:02 PM)Shade Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 07:13 AM)devs Wrote: [ -> ]As of tests :: no you don't need them; not in the current form. Instead, just create another php files with tests and add function that will fire them up at install start (or at any other phase; install phase'd be most relevant imho).....
So you're suggesting to perform unit tests? The 1.8 codebase is not suitable to perform them (if I recall correctly, Euan tried to set some up but didn't end successfully). And even if we could do unit tests (which will be easier with 2.0), many things would still need manual user interaction. Besides, the "install phase" is not the most relevant one; most bug fixes – if any – do not affect the installation process but common board functionalities.
Yes, Im suggesting to include unit tests, they have been created for a reason and this reason makes them fit here perfectly. The fact that Euan tried and didnt manage to do it, speaks clearly that he shouldnt be a developer. Implementing unit tests is not hard at all.....
(2017-09-15, 12:07 PM)Lunorian Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 12:02 PM)Shade Wrote: [ -> ]So you're suggesting to perform unit tests? The 1.8 codebase is not suitable to perform them (if I recall correctly, Euan tried to set some up but didn't end successfully). And even if we could do unit tests (which will be easier with 2.0), many things would still need manual user interaction. Besides, the "install phase" is not the most relevant one; most bug fixes – if any – do not affect the installation process but common board functionalities.
1.8's codebase is very messy and has been repaired over the years. It will probably never become completely clean. However he has a good point, adding an echo statement (just example) doesn't need extensive testing.
Thanks for understanding. I only wish devs would uinderstand me same way as you do it.
If you can write unit tests to cover 1.8, there's nobody stopping you. I've yet to see a single pull request to improve the pain points from half of the people constantly complaining. Seeing only negativity constantly is a surefire way to drive people away from the project.
WRONG.
This negativity is here for a reason. Reason being your way of administering (in wide sense) your (=MyBB) codebase on GitHub. People (not only me) dont like this way and we are voicing our dislike. Nothing bad.
Try to improve it (by listeniung to what we have to say - even if its negative) and just change accordingly. Then you would see what is really negative and whats only seem to be negative.
I assure you that what drives people away from the project is your (as well as other devs) attitude. Learn to listen to people and whose who would be driven away will become minority. Thats what you want right?
It's clear how you feel about the project and how the main developers handle it. I think the MyBB team and I share the same opinion when I say that negative criticism is welcomed to the project, that just doesn't mean that actual changes will be made. Remember the project is open-source. You're free to make PRs at any time instead of getting the hump when your suggestions are knocked back (with or without reason). The team have a vision and a road map for the software, so that doesn't mean that every feature suggested (whether it'll work with MyBB or not) will be accepted. When someone/a team develops a product, that's just the way it works.
We do listen and make changes based upon constructive criticism. Listing things that are bad or could be improved without actually suggesting concrete steps to make improvements is in no way constructive. We've listened to many suggestions over the years - such as moving our code repositories to Git and GitHub rather than SVN and Redmine. Such as working on 2.0 in public rather than behind closed doors. Such as creating the Discord server so that users can chat with developers and other staff members far more easily. Such as reworking the mods site due to (well founded) criticism of the old mods site.
We cannot simply jump and suddenly start doing things exactly as you say we should do them simply because you say we should.
As a team we are well aware that development is slow and that it could be improved. It would be lovely if we could all quit our jobs and work full time 100% on MyBB and providing support to users and answering threads such as this one, but unfortunately we have to be able to put food on our tables.
(2017-09-15, 03:12 PM)devs Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 01:38 PM)Euan T Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 12:23 PM)devs Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 12:02 PM)Shade Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 07:13 AM)devs Wrote: [ -> ]As of tests :: no you don't need them; not in the current form. Instead, just create another php files with tests and add function that will fire them up at install start (or at any other phase; install phase'd be most relevant imho).....
So you're suggesting to perform unit tests? The 1.8 codebase is not suitable to perform them (if I recall correctly, Euan tried to set some up but didn't end successfully). And even if we could do unit tests (which will be easier with 2.0), many things would still need manual user interaction. Besides, the "install phase" is not the most relevant one; most bug fixes – if any – do not affect the installation process but common board functionalities.
Yes, Im suggesting to include unit tests, they have been created for a reason and this reason makes them fit here perfectly. The fact that Euan tried and didnt manage to do it, speaks clearly that he shouldnt be a developer. Implementing unit tests is not hard at all.....
(2017-09-15, 12:07 PM)Lunorian Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 12:02 PM)Shade Wrote: [ -> ]So you're suggesting to perform unit tests? The 1.8 codebase is not suitable to perform them (if I recall correctly, Euan tried to set some up but didn't end successfully). And even if we could do unit tests (which will be easier with 2.0), many things would still need manual user interaction. Besides, the "install phase" is not the most relevant one; most bug fixes – if any – do not affect the installation process but common board functionalities.
1.8's codebase is very messy and has been repaired over the years. It will probably never become completely clean. However he has a good point, adding an echo statement (just example) doesn't need extensive testing.
Thanks for understanding. I only wish devs would uinderstand me same way as you do it.
If you can write unit tests to cover 1.8, there's nobody stopping you. I've yet to see a single pull request to improve the pain points from half of the people constantly complaining. Seeing only negativity constantly is a surefire way to drive people away from the project.
WRONG.
This negativity is here for a reason. Reason being your way of administering (in wide sense) your (=MyBB) codebase on GitHub. People (not only me) dont like this way and we are voicing our dislike. Nothing bad.
Try to improve it (by listeniung to what we have to say - even if its negative) and just change accordingly. Then you would see what is really negative and whats only seem to be negative.
I assure you that what drives people away from the project is your (as well as other devs) attitude. Learn to listen to people and whose who would be driven away will become minority. Thats what you want right?
Except what you're suggesting is not an "improvement". You're suggesting we just stop policing what gets added to the codebase via PRs completely, without testing if that's code even works. That is not an improvement, that is madness.
We opened up the project a lot more recently, but we're not just going to auto merge every PR without at least checking it does what it says it does. And we're certainly not going to put months/years into refsctoring 1.8. That's is what 2.0 is.
Adding unit tests to 1.8 is not trivial because much of the code is undocumented or poorly structured. It is therefore difficult to assert what a function should do. Furthermore, the project is open source. Nothing is stopping you submitting a PR with a functional Unit Testing system implemented. We would review it and if it worked it would it of course be merged.
Also how do you come to this conclusion that just because YOU say something we are obliged to implement it? You've yet to produce any evidence that you know how large scale development works yet you assert yourself as an expert with the voice of the whole community behind you.
Of course, if you disagree with how the project is run then fork it on GitHub and fix these issues yourself. That's the benefit of MyBB being open source
The thread has reminded me why I left the team and why I won't be rejoining. The community is cancer. That's what drives people away. I feel stressed just thinking about it.
If you want progress, be that progress. If you're going to come here to say the team is bad, the code is bad, the project is bad, everything is bad, apart from the way you're treating the people who volunteer their time and effort to maintain this project while dealing with your shit and everything else they're going through in life, orange off.
/thread
(2017-09-15, 07:02 PM)Euan T Wrote: [ -> ]We do listen and make changes based upon constructive criticism. Listing things that are bad or could be improved without actually suggesting concrete steps to make improvements is in no way constructive. We've listened to many suggestions over the years - such as moving our code repositories to Git and GitHub rather than SVN and Redmine. Such as working on 2.0 in public rather than behind closed doors. Such as creating the Discord server so that users can chat with developers and other staff members far more easily. Such as reworking the mods site due to (well founded) criticism of the old mods site.
We cannot simply jump and suddenly start doing things exactly as you say we should do them simply because you say we should.
As a team we are well aware that development is slow and that it could be improved. It would be lovely if we could all quit our jobs and work full time 100% on MyBB and providing support to users and answering threads such as this one, but unfortunately we have to be able to put food on our tables.
The best sign of how you listen is 20 PRs and 120 issues currently being open. But you may call it whatever......
As for your lack of time; as it was in other thread, consider starting a company which will have employees, will pay taxes, accept donations etc. Than you would be able to put food on your table, and - whats even more important - would be working full time on MyBB.
(2017-09-15, 09:23 PM)Tom K. Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 03:12 PM)devs Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 01:38 PM)Euan T Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 12:23 PM)devs Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-09-15, 12:02 PM)Shade Wrote: [ -> ]So you're suggesting to perform unit tests? The 1.8 codebase is not suitable to perform them (if I recall correctly, Euan tried to set some up but didn't end successfully). And even if we could do unit tests (which will be easier with 2.0), many things would still need manual user interaction. Besides, the "install phase" is not the most relevant one; most bug fixes – if any – do not affect the installation process but common board functionalities.
Yes, Im suggesting to include unit tests, they have been created for a reason and this reason makes them fit here perfectly. The fact that Euan tried and didnt manage to do it, speaks clearly that he shouldnt be a developer. Implementing unit tests is not hard at all.....
(2017-09-15, 12:07 PM)Lunorian Wrote: [ -> ]1.8's codebase is very messy and has been repaired over the years. It will probably never become completely clean. However he has a good point, adding an echo statement (just example) doesn't need extensive testing.
Thanks for understanding. I only wish devs would uinderstand me same way as you do it.
If you can write unit tests to cover 1.8, there's nobody stopping you. I've yet to see a single pull request to improve the pain points from half of the people constantly complaining. Seeing only negativity constantly is a surefire way to drive people away from the project.
WRONG.
This negativity is here for a reason. Reason being your way of administering (in wide sense) your (=MyBB) codebase on GitHub. People (not only me) dont like this way and we are voicing our dislike. Nothing bad.
Try to improve it (by listeniung to what we have to say - even if its negative) and just change accordingly. Then you would see what is really negative and whats only seem to be negative.
I assure you that what drives people away from the project is your (as well as other devs) attitude. Learn to listen to people and whose who would be driven away will become minority. Thats what you want right?
Except what you're suggesting is not an "improvement". You're suggesting we just stop policing what gets added to the codebase via PRs completely, without testing if that's code even works. That is not an improvement, that is madness.
We opened up the project a lot more recently, but we're not just going to auto merge every PR without at least checking it does what it says it does. And we're certainly not going to put months/years into refsctoring 1.8. That's is what 2.0 is.
Adding unit tests to 1.8 is not trivial because much of the code is undocumented or poorly structured. It is therefore difficult to assert what a function should do. Furthermore, the project is open source. Nothing is stopping you submitting a PR with a functional Unit Testing system implemented. We would review it and if it worked it would it of course be merged.
Also how do you come to this conclusion that just because YOU say something we are obliged to implement it? You've yet to produce any evidence that you know how large scale development works yet you assert yourself as an expert with the voice of the whole community behind you.
Of course, if you disagree with how the project is run then fork it on GitHub and fix these issues yourself. That's the benefit of MyBB being open source
Could you please elaborate on why you are not going to allow automerging of PRs?
Implementing unit tests is
very trivial in fact. Refer to phpunit framework, its documentation (very good one ijn fact) and you will be fine doing so.
Why most of MyBB code is undomented? Because you (=team) did not give clear instructions that this is needed (=obligatory). So people do not write docs (they dont see the need to). Simple
(2017-09-15, 09:42 PM)Nathan Malcolm Wrote: [ -> ]The thread has reminded me why I left the team and why I won't be rejoining. The community is cancer. That's what drives people away. I feel stressed just thinking about it.
If you want progress, be that progress. If you're going to come here to say the team is bad, the code is bad, the project is bad, everything is bad, apart from the way you're treating the people who volunteer their time and effort to maintain this project while dealing with your shit and everything else they're going through in life, fuck off.
/thread
Thats exactly what drives people away. Answers like the one above and general atitude of devs towards regular members. Its better you are out of team.....
Ok, so you make a PR that just adds the word "butt" to every post. We should auto merge that right? Or maybe you try to "fix" and issue, but because you didn't bother to test it, it actually breaks posting. We should auto merge that too right? Or you submit a PR that you think would allow search to be more efficient for big boards, but is horrendous for small boards - we should automerge that too right?
It's not about being "good at PHP". You can't just look at code and know how to fix some of these issues, because the issues are often complex. They often happen only under certain scenarios, they're edge cases. It's not always a case of saying "oh yes of course, this variable just needs to be true". We test code before merging, so we don't have to go back in a months time as we're testing for the final release and try to figure out why suddenly posting doesn't work. Or would you suggest we just put out the update before testing it on a board at all?
Your solution is not a solution, it just creates headaches. We have 20 unmerged PRs and 120 issues? And? PHPBB has 53 unmerged PRs. Vanilla forums have 470 open issues and 20 unmerged PRs. We're not going to start merging PRs automatically because it is objectively a bad idea.
In regards to starting a company, as said in the other thread that's not going to work. Not on donations. It might work if we charged for MyBB, but donations really aren't enough to support the team. Maybe we could get enough donations in a year to pay for 1 Dev to go part-time in their job. But you can't just pay each Dev $1000 and have them ask their boss if they can work 10% less and receive 10% less salary.
If you don't like the way we develop MyBB, then fork it and create your own version with automerged PRs. It really is that simple. From the way you're speaking you appear to believe nobody here at MyBB can code, and that we're doing it all wrong, so forking and developing yourself is probably a good option.