(2012-12-31, 12:51 PM)Crayo Wrote: [ -> ]You're paranoid anori. That or you just enjoy overreacting. If you're as against this as you seem then you should get your crayons out, make a sign, and walk down the street protesting against the major companies. Not spending hours writing ridiculously long posts on a MyBB community forum protesting against small forums merging databases.
You still dont get it do you?
I am not against it, but doing it without the user consent i have a huge problem with. No where in the TOS it states this is allowed. You can hate me all you want for it. But its not there, and still site admins think they can just do what they wish with the default set of rules. Which even disallows this. The fact that i fully disagree with your view which is posts/threads above users is not my problem then.
Then you are quite possibly the most sensitive person I know. If you saw a forum merge with another tomorrow that you were apart of one way or another, and it wasn't written in their TOS that they could do this, what would you do? If your answer is "Nothing, I'd just be annoyed" then the effort you have spent with your posts in this thread are ridiculously pointless.
(2012-12-31, 01:06 PM)Crayo Wrote: [ -> ]Then you are quite possibly the most sensitive person I know. If you saw a forum merge with another tomorrow that you were apart of one way or another, and it wasn't written in their TOS that they could do this, what would you do? If your answer is "Nothing, I'd just be annoyed" then the effort you have spent with your posts in this thread are ridiculously pointless.
Thankfully no, though i have been part of a forum that got taken over by a network. Nothing changed about it except that the add revenue went to the network and was redistributed. But that this would happen was already indicated in the TOS, it was announced a month before it happened and they even offered multiple options on what you could do with your account.
In the case i would join a forum that would do that, i would not be able to do anything currently. Except just ask for the account to be deleted (if it was not indicated in their TOS this had a chance of happening). Can i drag them in front of a court no not really, only if they life in the same country as me. And if that is the case i can only pray that the EU will push the "The right to be forgotten" rule through.
Besides this dragging a site to court by yourself is a waste of money that's why sites are in such a safe position right now. Anything can and will go, unless the site becomes so large that its a far bigger issue (google/facebook scale).
To answer your question yes they are ridiculously pointless the posts. It wont change the mindset of anything goes. And that will only change when their become global rules of what rights a user has when he/she creates an account on any website.
All this does not change my opinion about it all that its highly unethical doing this when a user does not agree to it.
(2012-12-31, 12:48 PM)anori Wrote: [ -> ]There is a difference though the bank will not share that recording with anybody except the authority (which does not fall under a third party if they required it for legal reasons). While site owners just happily sell it to anybody who bids.
So what if the bank is bought by another bank and then merged? You old bank customers become customers of the new bank and ALL of their personal information and money are moved to the new bank? So you go close your account and take your money before the merge even. But you know what, all you account history is still with the new bank, as is all your personal info and even all the security footage of you being there the week before.
Do you post to a forum for your own gain or are you doing it for the benefit of the community? Most do it for the community,so why would you want to remove all your content when a site merges or sells?
If you are worried about your private information, all most forum sites have of you is an IP, which I explained earlier is not really private information, and an email address. Use a disposable address if it matter than much to you. Then you remain anonymous. If you think your IP is private info, in the context of the site you are visiting, use a proxy service.
and you know what, when a site is sold to another party, the owner changes, but the site is still the site. it could be made better, stay the same or be made worse. the same as if the owner never changed. the community is the community, unless you are joining a site for the owners benefit and not the community's.
so if Chris sells or gives away MyBB to someone who does not change anything and does not tell anyone, you are going to get mad and wan to delete you account
What EXACTLY are you worried about when a site is sold or merged?
Pavemen, I'm fairly sure Banks are
required to retain account information for taxation and fraud investigation purposes. That is a poor analogy for forums
You can take his point and compare it with many other businesses and corporations, so the analogy is decent in my opinion.
man, is there anything left to be said about this at this point? I feel like people have been reposting stuff for three pages
So the usual for mybb.com then? Lol
Quote:You pretty much say exactly what i wanted to hear: Who gives a crap what i do with somebody's information its on my site i dictate what i do with it. Sums it up pretty much.
You misinterpret it. I mean users don't give a crap.
1. I don't sell private member data to third parties other than a site sale. When I sell a site I force the user agreement I currently have to the new party. Not once have I gotten a complaint about a sale I've made.
The "who gives a crap" is intended to end users that just don't care to read TOS anyways.
Quote:Also i really like the argument about the hacked user, because that user is important while a user with a good solid reasoning for wishing his/her account deleted is not important? Double standards i call that in my book double standards that benefit the other person best.
The "account" integritity is important. Not these perceived moral rights you believe exist.
Quote:No where in the TOS it states this is allowed.
And no where in TOS does it says it's disallowed either. Nor is it in the U.S. law too. You normally don't put what's allowed in a TOS. Example is "you can say these words: 'hello, giant, fellow'." Instead you seem them tell you what you CAN'T do more often.
Quote:Thankfully no, though i have been part of a forum that got taken over by a network. Nothing changed about it except that the add revenue went to the network and was redistributed.
And that's my point about "who cares". Because how often is a merge/sale abused? IMHO it's just a non-issue. It's a nice discussion imho though and that's cool. But in the end I don't see this as an overly abused issue where either admins or end-users complain.
Most admins in sales are responsible people. They are not trying to piss off their base.
I read over and over again reasons WHY to keep the data and disallow deletion but I have yet to read a valid reason allowing users to delete their content to BLANK other than "well it's wrong and immoral and it's their data" which just isn't enough imho to base an argument about.
I honestly don't bother reading the posts here. We know that any arguments about the ToS or laws is just trash anyway, so we'll go onto ideals.
Ethically, whilst I think that users have some sort of ownership over the stuff they post, I don't believe they have ownership or rights over the copy that they decided to make available to the world. Say user A has made a long and detailed post on forum B and decides to post it on a competing forum C, I believe they should have the right to do so (if the post becomes the property of forum B's owner, they wouldn't be able to do this).
However, if they've been banned from forum B, user A cannot demand it be removed from B. User A can continue posting it on other forums, such as forum D and E, but they don't have the right to remove the copy from B.
To use an analogy, say you write and publish a book. You have rights to republish it, modify it etc and perhaps even recall it to a certain degree. However, once someone has bought a copy of your book, you don't have the right to obtain it back from them - it's their property now. You may be able to seek the buyer and make an offer to take back the book, but the buyer is not obliged to agree. On the other hand, the buyer does not have the right to make and sell copies of your book (but they can rip out pages, scribble on the side etc if they wish) - you have no right to take what they've legally obtained.
Similarly, when someone makes a post on a forum, they implicitly give the right to host the posting to the forum's owner. The forum owner can modify this posted copy, delete it or retain it against the user's will, all whilst not having full rights over the posting.