(2021-03-02, 10:52 PM)Furious Wrote: [ -> ]phpBB is actively developed, the thing about phpBB is they don't have to push nowhere near as much security releases as compared to MyBB because phpBB is simply a more secure platform out of the box and also out of the box it is responsive and has basics like alerts built in already so they don't really need to rush for phpBB 4 because as it sits phpBB 3.3.3 is good to go.
I don't think that's really the case, no software is inherently any more secure than any other, it's only as secure as it is at that time, and with a bigger following and user base, it's likely to have more eyes on it. Saying that, 7 out of their last 10 releases have included security fixes, fixing 11 issues - MyBB may have had more individual issues over the last 10 releases, but a similar amount over the same time period, so it's not even a very accurate claim.
(2021-03-02, 05:54 PM)Serpius Wrote: [ -> ]Why do the contribution method? Why make any attempt to raise money?
As you stated clearly, people for whatever reason are not inclined to donate/contribute. That is a waste of time and effort.
However, if the "Powers to be" of MyBB would make MyBB forum software a PAID forum software, then people will be inclined to pay for software that will be more likely to be updated/upgraded on more of a regular basis because the MyBB team now have a financial incentive to work on the software. Right now, short of personal incentives, the MyBB team really don't have much incentive to push out update/upgrades on a regular basis because there are no consequences if nothing happens.
Yes, I know this suggestion is controversial, but aside from anyone having a better idea, this is the best I can suggest.
Yes, people (Admins) will raise a big fuss if the decision was made to make MyBB forum software PAID, but there are compromises that can be made.
Make 2 versions of MyBB, one FREE and one PAID. Obviously, the PAID version will get more attention and faster updates/upgrades than the FREE version will.
However, doing it this way will encourage Admins who are still using the FREE version to consider going over to the PAID version if they see that the MyBB team is really working on the paid version.
The paid version of MyBB can be priced lower than the other PAID software out there to attract potential Admins who are looking for forum software that gets a lot of attention from a development team.
Even a yearly fee of $100 USD/year is far cheaper than most, if not all, paid forum software that I have seen. That comes out to about $8.33 USD/month.
Any of the Extends, Themes, and other add-ons will still be handled by the respective developers/authors, that way the MyBB team can focus just on the core software of MyBB.
Just my measly 2 cents.
There's several issues with this really:
- we could not reasonably charge for MyBB in its current state in terms of overall codebase quality and how modern it is when comparing to other software
- having a free version that eventually, I imagine, gets features from the paid version, just de-values the paid version
- having two versions side-by-side means we go from maintaining one project to two, and either someone would have to work on the paid version and port changes to the free version (giving them even more work), or the existing team would keep working on the free version (which is too slow currently so wouldn't even solve the current problem of the free version)
- even if we went full paid to avoid that, the previous versions would still be open source and free forever so someone could just fork it and continue with a free version
- once going down the paid route there would be the expectation that it's being worked on full time like it is with other commercial software, and you'd need the initial capital to pay people before the licence fees come in
- the plugins and themes are already managed by the respective developers/authors and the team already does only focus on core MyBB so that wouldn't change
The only way a paid model would work would be to do what 2.0 was originally planned to be, and rebuild from the ground up, but you still need the initial capital to afford to do that (which Kier and the XF team likely had available to them).
Basically, it's not as simple as "just make it paid" as if we'll suddenly have loads of money to pay people salaries.
(2021-03-03, 01:40 PM)Matt Wrote: [ -> ]There's several issues with this really:
- we could not reasonably charge for MyBB in its current state in terms of overall codebase quality and how modern it is when comparing to other software
- having a free version that eventually, I imagine, gets features from the paid version, just de-values the paid version
- having two versions side-by-side means we go from maintaining one project to two, and either someone would have to work on the paid version and port changes to the free version (giving them even more work), or the existing team would keep working on the free version (which is too slow currently so wouldn't even solve the current problem of the free version)
- even if we went full paid to avoid that, the previous versions would still be open source and free forever so someone could just fork it and continue with a free version
- once going down the paid route there would be the expectation that it's being worked on full time like it is with other commercial software, and you'd need the initial capital to pay people before the license fees come in
- the plugins and themes are already managed by the respective developers/authors and the team already does only focus on core MyBB so that wouldn't change
The only way a paid model would work would be to do what 2.0 was originally planned to be, and rebuild from the ground up, but you still need the initial capital to afford to do that (which Kier and the XF team likely had available to them).
Basically, it's not as simple as "just make it paid" as if we'll suddenly have loads of money to pay people salaries.
Responding to a few items.
#1 - Modern? Compared to which forum software? From what I have read up to this point, there are many aspects of the MyBB forum software that needs to be updated. Even a few people have mentioned that the "new core" parts of MyBB 1.9 already have been outdated due to its many delays in the release.
#2 - No, if Admins see that the paid version gets its updates/upgrades faster and more frequent than the free version, that will give them the incentive to switch to a paid version.
#3 - Again, the main focus will be on the paid version. The free version will probably still get minor infrequent security updates, but not any major upgrades.
If anyone wants to fork the free version... let them. Who cares? There have been numerous people stating that they will be forking MyBB into something else... well... guess what? You never hear about it after they make that statement.
#4 - Of course, there has to be a paid full-time staff to do this. That's obvious.
The MyBB management will have to come up with a plan to make this happen assuming they want to do down this route. It's not going to happen overnight, but with proper and diligent planning, it will work.
Just my measly 2 cents.
(2021-03-02, 10:52 PM)Furious Wrote: [ -> ] (2021-03-02, 07:03 PM)Alhimika Wrote: [ -> ]The problem is I really want to use MyBB because I know it much more then any other forum software but I fear that MyBB won't be around much longer at this rate.
Will be MyBB over there in the next couple of years or not is purelly speculation without any base.
Same threads are all over the place
"If phpbb is dead? "
"If SMF is dead?"
"If any free forum software is dead?"
Want to go for the best as it stands right now?
Go for Flarum.
Myselft I'd rather stick to the devil I know, Besides after all the work I've done my forum tickes nearly all the boxes for the next couple of years.
Whatever happens after all that time we just wait and see.
phpBB is actively developed, the thing about phpBB is they don't have to push nowhere near as much security releases as compared to MyBB because phpBB is simply a more secure platform out of the box and also out of the box it is responsive and has basics like alerts built in already so they don't really need to rush for phpBB 4 because as it sits phpBB 3.3.3 is good to go.
SMF is pretty much dead but it does have new management now so we will see where that goes but I wouldn't launch a forum using it as it stands now.
Flarum is still in Beta and has been since like 2017 so I would be hesitant to use Flarum on a main project although I do love how it is setup.
[/quote]
We are beginning to get a little bit off topic here but I do want to address the point you mentioned about phpBB and security releases vs MyBB and security releases.
This does ultimately depend on policies each software has taken. For example, knowing how MyBB works I personally would be rather reassured as to how many security releases we make and I know first hand how quickly a release is made after we are notified of a security issue. We could choose to sit on a vulnerability until we are ready for the next release, leaving forums vulnerable in the meantime. We choose to push new security releases often before the full maintaince release to make sure users boards are fully up-to-date and minimise any potential risk.
Any security issues reported to us are investigated within a matter of days and then appropriate action is taken as well as deciding how best for us to address it.
I can't comment on phpBB's practices in any form of confidence but here are some
possibilities which may show how MyBB handles security issues differently:
- phpBB could wait for the next full release to fix any issues
- Less reports could be made to phpBB because a) less people are actively looking or b) as you said it may be more secure out of the box, which I can't comment on.
Also, it is worth noting I haven't looked at how many security fixes are made in phpBB's normal release cycle, I'm just explaning that the picture isn't as black and white as it may seem.
The ownership of MyBB needs to be transferred to an individual / group of people (company) who have a vision for the project, and the dedication to execute on such a vision. The project could stay free and open source, and still be monetised to earn revenue. Advertising could be sold. A plugin or apps shop could be started where the project takes a percentage of all sales etc. It all comes down to management.
(2021-03-05, 08:33 PM)Ashley1 Wrote: [ -> ]The ownership of MyBB needs to be transferred to an individual / group of people (company) who have a vision for the project, and the dedication to execute on such a vision. The project could stay free and open source, and still be monetised to earn revenue. Advertising could be sold. A plugin or apps shop could be started where the project takes a percentage of all sales etc. It all comes down to management.
The owner of MyBB has not been online in over a year.
(2021-03-04, 10:16 PM)Ben Wrote: [ -> ] (2021-03-02, 10:52 PM)Furious Wrote: [ -> ] (2021-03-02, 07:03 PM)Alhimika Wrote: [ -> ]The problem is I really want to use MyBB because I know it much more then any other forum software but I fear that MyBB won't be around much longer at this rate.
Will be MyBB over there in the next couple of years or not is purelly speculation without any base.
Same threads are all over the place
"If phpbb is dead? "
"If SMF is dead?"
"If any free forum software is dead?"
Want to go for the best as it stands right now?
Go for Flarum.
Myselft I'd rather stick to the devil I know, Besides after all the work I've done my forum tickes nearly all the boxes for the next couple of years.
Whatever happens after all that time we just wait and see.
phpBB is actively developed, the thing about phpBB is they don't have to push nowhere near as much security releases as compared to MyBB because phpBB is simply a more secure platform out of the box and also out of the box it is responsive and has basics like alerts built in already so they don't really need to rush for phpBB 4 because as it sits phpBB 3.3.3 is good to go.
SMF is pretty much dead but it does have new management now so we will see where that goes but I wouldn't launch a forum using it as it stands now.
Flarum is still in Beta and has been since like 2017 so I would be hesitant to use Flarum on a main project although I do love how it is setup.
Quote:We are beginning to get a little bit off topic here but I do want to address the point you mentioned about phpBB and security releases vs MyBB and security releases.
This does ultimately depend on policies each software has taken. For example, knowing how MyBB works I personally would be rather reassured as to how many security releases we make and I know first hand how quickly a release is made after we are notified of a security issue. We could choose to sit on a vulnerability until we are ready for the next release, leaving forums vulnerable in the meantime. We choose to push new security releases often before the full maintaince release to make sure users boards are fully up-to-date and minimise any potential risk.
Any security issues reported to us are investigated within a matter of days and then appropriate action is taken as well as deciding how best for us to address it.
I can't comment on phpBB's practices in any form of confidence but here are some possibilities which may show how MyBB handles security issues differently:
- phpBB could wait for the next full release to fix any issues
- Less reports could be made to phpBB because a) less people are actively looking or b) as you said it may be more secure out of the box, which I can't comment on.
Also, it is worth noting I haven't looked at how many security fixes are made in phpBB's normal release cycle, I'm just explaning that the picture isn't as black and white as it may seem.
phpBB actually has outside firms do complete security audits on top of fixing any reported vulnerabilities. And do releases fairly quickly if it is a real risk.
Not something MyBB does that I know of (regarding outside security firm audits) which would be understandable because MyBB has no way of gaining income to be able to do these things while phpBB does have ways of gaining some income even allowing forum owners to opt to use Viglink to help phpBB out. Something MyBB should consider as an option as well.
(2021-03-05, 08:33 PM)Ashley1 Wrote: [ -> ]The ownership of MyBB needs to be transferred to an individual / group of people (company) who have a vision for the project, and the dedication to execute on such a vision. The project could stay free and open source, and still be monetised to earn revenue. Advertising could be sold. A plugin or apps shop could be started where the project takes a percentage of all sales etc. It all comes down to management.
Agreed.
I'll take a stab and offer $25,000 USD for the project. That's probably considered low but realize I'm probably in the best position to move this project forward and I'd have to spend $50k-100k into development.
But I doubt Chris is going to accept the offer. I don't think he'll even see it.
Matt Wrote:I've said it before but I'll say it again - do you have any actual constructive suggestions or proposals on what we do instead?
Not sure how many times I have to say what needed and needs to be done. That was to focus all efforts into a responsive design and almost nothing else. That was my suggestion many years ago even when 2.0 was being planned.
You can also push Chris to consider my offer.
(2021-03-07, 05:57 PM)labrocca Wrote: [ -> ] (2021-03-05, 08:33 PM)Ashley1 Wrote: [ -> ]The ownership of MyBB needs to be transferred to an individual / group of people (company) who have a vision for the project, and the dedication to execute on such a vision. The project could stay free and open source, and still be monetised to earn revenue. Advertising could be sold. A plugin or apps shop could be started where the project takes a percentage of all sales etc. It all comes down to management.
Agreed.
I'll take a stab and offer $25,000 USD for the project. That's probably considered low but realize I'm probably in the best position to move this project forward and I'd have to spend $50k-100k into development.
But I doubt Chris is going to accept the offer. I don't think he'll even see it.
Matt Wrote:I've said it before but I'll say it again - do you have any actual constructive suggestions or proposals on what we do instead?
Not sure how many times I have to say what needed and needs to be done. That was to focus all efforts into a responsive design and almost nothing else. That was my suggestion many years ago even when 2.0 was being planned.
You can also push Chris to consider my offer.
I do think alerts is an important feature too and currently there is no up to date and supported alert system for MyBB but I don't think that would be too hard for you to implement considering you already have a very good working system on your forum that you could just implement into MyBB out of the box.
So
1. Responsive.
2. Alerts.
3. Done.
Something that could all be done very quickly with you and Xerotic.
And from there just gradually update the software instead of a separate release which has lead to delay after delay and has resulted in people going elsewhere.
There was supposed to be monthly updates on progress given but that is not happening so it just leads me to believe that no progress is being made.
I think $25,000 is a solid offer considering they have no income from MyBB to begin with so it is not like they are selling at a loss.
Have you decided if you are going to fork MyBB yet?
(2021-03-07, 06:48 PM)Furious Wrote: [ -> ]I think $25,000 is a solid offer considering they have no income from MyBB to begin with so it is not like they are selling at a loss.
Have you decided if you are going to fork MyBB yet?
$25k + $50k-100k sounds good enough for a fork, so what is
$25k a
solid offer for, the brand?
If MyBB ever gets sold it would most likely be forked in a matter of days, not years.
(2021-03-07, 09:50 PM)Omar G. Wrote: [ -> ] (2021-03-07, 06:48 PM)Furious Wrote: [ -> ]I think $25,000 is a solid offer considering they have no income from MyBB to begin with so it is not like they are selling at a loss.
Have you decided if you are going to fork MyBB yet?
$25k + $50k-100k sounds good enough for a fork, so what is $25k a solid offer for, the brand?
If MyBB ever gets sold it would most likely be forked in a matter of days, not years.
Obviously the MyBB name is what holds the most value. Anyone can fork MyBB but will they grow or get enough exposure as MyBB? well Labrocca probably could because of the size of his forum but most other people? nahh.
The MyBB name is very well known and people will come back to MyBB if it gets back on track.
(2021-03-07, 05:57 PM)labrocca Wrote: [ -> ]I'll take a stab and offer $25,000 USD for the project. That's probably considered low but realize I'm probably in the best position to move this project forward and I'd have to spend $50k-100k into development.
But I doubt Chris is going to accept the offer. I don't think he'll even see it.
Not sure how many times I have to say what needed and needs to be done. That was to focus all efforts into a responsive design and almost nothing else. That was my suggestion many years ago even when 2.0 was being planned.
You can also push Chris to consider my offer.
This sounds like a good offer to me. Labrocca has put a lot into MyBB in the past and I think this could be the best chance to keep the brand alive.
A solid basic responsive software is what is needed. I have only ever used MyBB (10 years now), but for the first time ever I am thinking of switching to phpBB. I don't want to go that way but as much as I appreciate what everyone does behind the scenes, I can't help feeling that it's getting close to jump off the sinking ship.
And before anyone shouts back, no I can't help. I'm not experienced in the guts of the machine enough, I used to help out where I could with some questions but today I hardly bother logging-in here.
I have said all along that I just want a basic simple reliable secure forum, 1.8 does that but it does need to be responsive.
If Labrocca is serious about this and I believe he is, he would get my vote.
This could be a one off chance to save MyBB and make MyBB a serious contender again