MyBB Community Forums

People need to realise that software cannot stay the same way forever. It's not practical.

XenForo (commercial forum software) for example launched in 2011 and in 2017 released 2.0 which was a ground up rewrite, completely new software essentially, meaning every addon and theme, including paid ones, and all custom work, had to be rewritten from scratch. But it was the right thing for them to do.

SMF finally released 2.1 this year, and has this note on their announcement:

Quote:Be aware that upgrading to SMF 2.1 will remove any modifications you may have installed on your existing SMF forum, and that SMF 2.1 is incompatible with custom themes designed for earlier versions of SMF. You will need to install new versions of those modifications and/or themes after upgrading. Many modifications and themes have already been updated by their authors to support SMF 2.1

Breaking changes, no backwards compatibility (tho admittedly not complete rewrites).

I looked at the first article on phpBB's blog, and saw an article about... a completely brand new theme and design. Their discussion thread says this:

Quote:This is intended as a replacement for prosilver. As such it does not inherit from nor is it compatible in any way with any other themes.

Completely new and no backwards compatibility. And this is phpBB, the most widely used free forum software.

So, let's not kid ourselves that other forum software is just staying the same forever. If you want to go and use phpBB, you'll have to rewrite your themes for their next version as well, so what's the difference?

And before anyone mentions WordPress, commanding 70% of the usage on the web puts them in a difficult situation, having to maintain backwards compatibility is the very thing that's holding them back, as they can't modernise their ageing codebase even if they wanted to.

(2022-07-28, 12:20 AM)jimski Wrote: [ -> ]

(2022-07-27, 11:49 AM)martec Wrote: [ -> ]I can't believe you're proposing something that will throw all the mybb developers' years of work down the drain.
It's too disrespectful.

Disrespectful ???

There is nothing more disrespectful for the Dev team than ignoring wishes of MyBB users who were telling you 8 years ago that maintaining backward compatibility is very important to them as they invested years of work into their forums.

But you told the users to take a hike and first messed up version 2.0 on Laravel and then you got fixated on Twig and demolished backward compatibility.

And now you wonder why people don't want to contribute to the development and users are switching to other BBs.

I took a look at your previous posts. I didn't find anything saying you were against Twig at the time it was decided.
It's no use being rude after the community has decided on something that has been going on for years.
I've been following the discussions for years, but most were in favor of the change from the theme system that was done in tables and stored in a database.

Quote:And now you wonder why people don't want to contribute to the development and users are switching to other BBs.

This is a very important question. Why should anyone wait for 1.9x and if they want to have new features and not just use Xenforo or other software? Because if I were to start at zero and rebuild everything I've done to 1.8x, I may as well go with a further developed software like Xenforo with years of plugins, themes, and addons ready to go.

Quote:People need to realise that software cannot stay the same way forever. It's not practical.

Weird statement since forever is how it feels we're waiting for 2.0 and now 1.9. If software can't stay the same forever, then it's unfair to make us wait this long saying, "it's coming, it's coming, and just wait, be patient, it's coming". This thread is 4 1/2 years old but tack on the years we waited for 2.0 as well.

https://community.mybb.com/thread-99746.html Thread is 2011 almost exactly 11 years from my post right now. Maybe devs need to realize their software has stayed the same forever and have made decisions that have crippled the chances of keeping the project alive.

btw, I was using and doing phpbb addons/mods back in the day. When they broke the compatibility, that's when MyBB got popular. It was a better system and had a solid base, upgrading was easier and plugin system was dope. What will happen is that if ever 1.9x comes out, people will compare upgrading (starting over) to changing software (starting over) and the things that matter like themes and plugins will trump remaining with software they've used for a decade.

Quote:So, let's not kid ourselves that other forum software is just staying the same forever. If you want to go and use phpBB, you'll have to rewrite your themes for their next version as well, so what's the difference?

Hey! You do understand.

Quote:And before anyone mentions WordPress, commanding 70% of the usage on the web puts them in a difficult situation, having to maintain backwards compatibility is the very thing that's holding them back, as they can't modernise their ageing codebase even if they wanted to.

And yet they still command 70% of the usage. Interesting how playing to your strengths works out. Imagine if MyBB spent all that time developing 2.0 or 1.9x and instead did things like official addons like API, Web Hooks, or Sockets. Imagine how awesome MyBB would be today if they just pushed the limits of 1.8x to the max.

The goal imho was to get a responsive design as default. Devs believed it an opportunity to make a better template system. That it would be easy. And sure, I guess the code is done, but that's time taken from better things imho.

But I'm serious that we're past the point of reversing course. I don't think it will matter one bit if 1.9x is done tomorrow or in 5 years.

Much love and respect though to the Dev team. I don't want anyone to feel like they are getting beaten up over how this played out. There are no crystal balls.

(2022-07-30, 10:28 PM)labrocca Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:And now you wonder why people don't want to contribute to the development and users are switching to other BBs.

This is a very important question.  Why should anyone wait for 1.9x and if they want to have new features and not just use Xenforo or other software?  Because if I were to start at zero and rebuild everything I've done to 1.8x, I may as well go with a further developed software like Xenforo with years of plugins, themes, and addons ready to go. 

Quote:People need to realise that software cannot stay the same way forever. It's not practical.

Weird statement since forever is how it feels we're waiting for 2.0 and now 1.9.  If software can't stay the same forever, then it's unfair to make us wait this long saying, "it's coming, it's coming, and just wait, be patient, it's coming". This thread is 4 1/2 years old but tack on the years we waited for 2.0 as well. 

https://community.mybb.com/thread-99746.html  Thread is 2011 almost exactly 11 years from my post right now.  Maybe devs need to realize their software has stayed the same forever and have made decisions that have crippled the chances of keeping the project alive.

btw, I was using and doing phpbb addons/mods back in the day. When they broke the compatibility, that's when MyBB got popular.  It was a better system and had a solid base, upgrading was easier and plugin system was dope.  What will happen is that if ever 1.9x comes out, people will compare upgrading (starting over) to changing software (starting over) and the things that matter like themes and plugins will trump remaining with software they've used for a decade. 

Quote:So, let's not kid ourselves that other forum software is just staying the same forever. If you want to go and use phpBB, you'll have to rewrite your themes for their next version as well, so what's the difference?

Hey! You do understand. 

Quote:And before anyone mentions WordPress, commanding 70% of the usage on the web puts them in a difficult situation, having to maintain backwards compatibility is the very thing that's holding them back, as they can't modernise their ageing codebase even if they wanted to.

And yet they still command 70% of the usage.  Interesting how playing to your strengths works out.  Imagine if MyBB spent all that time developing 2.0 or 1.9x and instead did things like official addons like API, Web Hooks, or Sockets.  Imagine how awesome MyBB would be today if they just pushed the limits of 1.8x to the max. 

The goal imho was to get a responsive design as default.  Devs believed it an opportunity to make a better template system. That it would be easy.  And sure, I guess the code is done, but that's time taken from better things imho. 

But I'm serious that we're past the point of reversing course.  I don't think it will matter one bit if 1.9x is done tomorrow or in 5 years. 

Much love and respect though to the Dev team.  I don't want anyone to feel like they are getting beaten up over how this played out.  There are no crystal balls.

I don't use Xenforo because it costs $160 for a license.

I agree that upgrading should be seamlessly easy and fully automated with emphasis placed on compatibility between versions when it comes to themes and plugins.

Although forum software has reached maturity to a point where software like the current version of OpenBB achieves 99% of what is required from a forum software. I agree that the only (default) thing lacking now is responsive design. 

If there's a delay in feature updates, it's probably a good idea to go and remove all the lower priority features and push out an update with one or two high priority updates first.

The audacity and entitlement of some people on this site.

You complain MyBB is stuck in the past, that you want and need advancement, but when it happens you complain? Obviously advancement was going to come with a change in compiling and code, both front-end and back. People stay with MyBB, I think, not because it's free, but because it's reliable, secure, clean, easy to customize and has a knowledgeable and helpful dev team and contributing staff and community members.

They aren't paid to build this software, which means they aren't paid to cop your abuse when you feel entitled enough to scream your opinions down their throats after you've whinged and complained for change and they delivered.

I can't speak for any other developers, but I'll continue well into the future with the MyBB product because you won't find a better package elsewhere, and loyalty actually means something to me. Yep, I'll have to completely re-write my code after 1.9, but it's not like I didn't have any warning.

Quote:I don't use Xenforo because it costs $160 for a license.

Paltry sum compared to the work to upgrade a currently successful forums running 1.8x and to change all the plugins.

Quote:They aren't paid to build this software, which means they aren't paid to cop your abuse when you feel entitled enough to scream your opinions down their throats after you've whinged and complained for change and they delivered.

I offered to pay them to actually finish 1.9x a couple years ago. It was completely ignored. How much do I have to send them to justify my ability to criticize the situation?

Quote:I can't speak for any other developers, but I'll continue well into the future with the MyBB product because you won't find a better package elsewhere, and loyalty actually means something to me. Yep, I'll have to completely re-write my code after 1.9, but it's not like I didn't have any warning.

Easy to say from a guy who joined 3 months ago. I've been here for 16 years. That's 64 times longer than you. So when you tell us that we have "audacity and entitlement", yes...maybe we do. But you have arrogance and naivety. You don't know WTF you're talking about. This thread is 4 1/2 years old and the community waited years before that too for MyBB 2.0.

Let's see if you're here in a year or two spouting that same garbage.

(2022-08-25, 07:57 PM)labrocca Wrote: [ -> ]I offered to pay them to actually finish 1.9x a couple years ago.  It was completely ignored.  How much do I have to send them to justify my ability to criticize the situation? 

Easy to say from a guy who joined 3 months ago.  I've been here for 16 years.  That's 64 times longer than you.  So when you tell us that we have "audacity and entitlement", yes...maybe we do.  But you have arrogance and naivety.  You don't know WTF you're talking about.  This thread is 4 1/2 years old and the community waited years before that too for MyBB 2.0. 

Let's see if you're here in a year or two spouting that same garbage.

I've been working with MyBB since 2007 (here is my old account for reference), so I'm really not impressed.

So because you offered to pay them, that gives you the right to carry on (like you are now) because you're dissatisfied with current progress? I own and run a highly successful business outside of here, and I can assure you with an attitude like that, you'd be told to look elsewhere. So no, you haven't earned that right - much to your dismay.

I'll still be here long after 1.9 and 2.0 have been released, and you will too because I highly doubt you're going to find a better alternative. And even if you did, I'm sure they won't tolerate your attitude for too long.

I'm gonna chime in and say yeah, while I wish that MyBB's development was "faster" I have stopped bitching. A lot of the code is beyond my understanding even after weeks of study.

That being said I have a team that plans to make a downstream fork for our own uses and preferences. I encourage Labrocca to assemble his own team if he has that much money and forking the project. But it sounds to me he won't let the MyBB name go -- and that's a bad attitude.

Will the future default theme come with useful comments that describe which code belongs to which template?

(2022-09-12, 11:06 PM)idila Wrote: [ -> ]Will the future default theme come with useful comments that describe which code belongs to which template?

That feature is not theme-dependent but code-dependent. Right now, the MyBB 1.9 Twig rendering code doesn't include those comments, but they could certainly be fairly easily added.